There is a decision maker, there is an operator, and there is a passenger. Stop
Requested. This is Stop Requested. by ETA. I’m Christian. And I’m Levi. These are real conversations with the innovators, operators, and advocates driving improvements in public transportation.
Today we’re joined by Nicolas Latendresse, founder and CEO of Latenda, a. Canadian company developing a new generation of battery electric transit buses. Drawing on his background in aerospace and vehicle manufacturing,
Nicolas set out to address a gap in the market, the need for a smaller, more efficient transit bus. We’ discuss how Latenda, designed its 30-foot electric bus from the ground up, why feedback from operators and passengers matter, and what it takes to bring a new vehicle from prototype to production. Here’s our conversation with Nicolas
Latendresse. Welcome back to Stop Requested. We’re here with another great episode and, and very interesting conversation, uh, that we’re gonna have with, with our guest today. So our guest today, CEO and founder Nicolas Latendresse from
Latenda, and this is, uh, a zero emissions battery electric vehicles from, uh, Montreal. Nicolas, how you doing today? Very good. Very good.
Hi. So thank you for, uh, jumping on, on, on the call with us today and giving us an opportunity, uh, to learn about your background. You have a very interesting background and, and of course, learning about tr- um, you know, starting a company that, that provides, uh, public transportation vehicles, uh, that are battery propulsion and, and of course, entering to this industry. So thank you for, for being with us today.
And, and let’s get started. H- how about you introduce yourself, uh, for our audience. You know, tell us a little bit of who you are and, um, what you’re building at Latenda.
Yes. Perfect, Christian. So, uh, Nicolas, so, um, uh, CEO of Latenda. We are based in Montreal in Canada. Um, so, uh,
I have background of a mechanical engineer. I work, uh, before founding Latenda, I worked more than, uh, 20 years in the vehicle manufacturing, industry. So the first half of portion
I worked for, uh, uh, component, like, um, uh, supplier for components for the, uh, uh, uh, ground vehicle, tr- like commercial vehicle, uh, industry. The other half I work in, uh, in for, uh, aerospace, uh, company, like, called Bombardier Aerospace in, uh, in Montreal. So the, uh, and, uh, you, uh, you know,
I, I saw this opportunity, like, uh, always wanted to, to start, like, a vehicle manufacturing company and, uh, you know, putting together some, uh, what I learned, the experience I had, you know, for, uh, innovation.
Uh, all the experience, like, uh, from, uh, from the, the manufacturing side and also putting some sustainable mod- you know, transportation sustainability aspect.
And buses, you know, is something that I saw as a very com- like a interesting topic because I take bus, you know, I, I, I take, I use transit since I’m nine years old.
So I- Wow … since the evolution of, uh, you know, the, the buses from the, the, the high floor, like the, the, I start with the GM, uh, they call it the, uh, New Look, uh, model, you know. And after that we have seen the big change from, uh, the, the, I would say high floor to low floor.
And since, uh, so since, like, uh, more than 30- years, now we have the evolution of from diesel to hybrid to electric. So this is something that, uh,
I, I’ve think maybe we can have, uh, as a, as a passenger on. the, from the passenger point of view, I said maybe we could have a, there’s an opportunity there to change something. So this, this is how it’s, it started. That, that, that’s very interesting. And, and, and, you have a, you know, very impressive background and, and I see how, you know, all those things help you put the pieces together, right? Because somebody as a transit professional, and, and I think our listeners,
I think very few, if probably none, have had that idea of like, “You know what? I’m gonna start, uh, you know, bus ma- a bus manufacturing company. Like, I’m gonna build buses for the transit industry.”
So, you know, but, but you had that first-hand experience to manufacturing, to actually de- developing vehicles, but how, how do you make that connection? So w- is there anything you heard from transit agencies or talking to transit professionals, uh, that where you f- where you found that- Yeah … room for a new bus platform? Like what, what was that, uh, uh, conversation, like, or what got you to that point where you said, “Oh, you know what? We’ could start building buses and, and, and agencies are gonna be interested in these buses because there’s a need that is, uh, unfulfilled right now”? Yeah. So the, the first thing was, okay, in my career, do I want to start or not, uh, a vehicle manufacturing company in the bus company? So I said, uh, vehicle manufa- so I said, “Okay, yeah, I want to be an entrepreneur, so I want to, uh, this is like, uh, I need to do it.” This first thing. After that, I selected, you know, the, the, um, uh, bus industry, uh, which is like, uh, s- uh, easier to, uh, you know, for a certification, for the different… A, a lot of topic it’s, it’s easier than aerospace.
Uh, it’s more sustainable, like, a, a topic than, uh, automotive. So this is how I, I, I, I, I align, you know, the, the, uh, the, the, the vehicle type. After that, uh, during, um,
I would say three years, I did a lot of investigation about, okay, uh, what, what kind of technologies, uh, what, what is, like, a, uh, what is the pain of the transit organization. So I did a lot of survey. Uh, I went to Europe, uh, from, on trade show. So taking, you know, uh, uh, uh, some, uh, leave, you know, at my work to, to, to go to a trade show in Europe. Do the same thing in the
US. Oh, wow. And, uh, you know, and, uh, seeing, uh, the buses, the, the new electric buses in that time, you know, we’re talking about, uh, uh, 2014, 2015, 2016.
Uh, so and I did some survey with, go to visit some, uh, transit organization. So what are the pain? What is the… So this is how I figure out the opportunity. And, and one day, you know, a, um, a transit agen- a, a tr- transit, uh, person told me, “You know, y- you shouldn’t, you should not put- Think about the 40-foot.
You should make something smaller because we need s- there’s nothing, you know, for a smaller vehicle. We need something bigger than a cutaway, but smaller, you know, than a 40-foot, and there is all, all the, the big n- companies they are in that sector, they produce articulated buses, like bigger buses, but nothing smaller, and this is, this is a good opportunity. So I investigated that, that a lot, and this is how we found this, uh, you know, finding the missing middle, and we said,
“Okay, going the bus, transit bus, good. The size 30 foot, like, you know, mid-size bus.” And after that, implementing the, the, from the ground up a n- a new kind of vehicle.
So asking the… So this is we listen the pain from transit organization, something that, uh, h- has not been addressed from the, the, uh, the, the, the bus OEM since they produce the same kind of bus since
30 years. So improving, uh, safety, improving maneuverability, improving accessibility for passengers. Um, zero emission, uh, is, is also something that, uh, it was like starting, so and zero emission, but at, for a good real.
range and on, all the year of operation. So this is also very important. And easy to man- to, to, to maintain.
Uh, easy access to parts, easy access, you know, to, to reduce labor time for maintenance. So this is how we put that together in that new vehicle shape, uh, in that mid-size, uh, 30-foot bus sector.
Uh, that’s super interesting, Nicolas. I- I’ve got so many questions running through my head right now. I’m gonna just grab one because I feel like I could go on, and on about this. But, uh, y- you know, where, where do you see your bus, that, that 30-foot bus fitting into a transit network? Is it something that you might run on a, a, a campus, a university campus perhaps?
Is it, uh, you know, maybe on some of your lower ridership routes in a North American city? I m- what, what’s your vision there?
Okay. So just to let you know, um, we, we thought, you know, for, for transit, uh, uh, it’s more like, um, uh, on the big city center, you can have all the suburb, you know, uh, suburb around the big city center that, uh, uh, I, I’m pretty sure you have seen in a suburb area like those full size, uh, empty 40-foot buses running. So this is like something that having the right size bus at the s- the, the, the right place, this is like the, the, the thing interesting. After that, you can have on a medium sized city or a small city where they have a transit organ…
uh, uh, buses running. Sometimes they, they don’t need to have like a, uh, they don’t have a ridership for more than 45 people inside, you know, or something like that. So this is where the, that kind of vehicle makes sense. Uh, and with also, this is
I would say, this is on the, I would say, on the city side, but also on the transit planning tr- the, the new way, the new transit networks.
So normally you have some feeder who feed, uh, um, they bring people to a hub, to a bigger, uh, transit, uh, vehicle, and to, uh, another hub, potentially another like transit. So bringing people to the city center from a feeder and a, a bigger tran- So this is a, a, the kind of midsize bus is a feeder, you know. So you can also feed, uh, to a hub people and it to a bigger like kind of a, uh, like a subway, a BRT, articulated buses.
So this is a where, where it makes sense. We also focus in, uh, um, you know, on the airports, so, um, and universities.
So, you know, those are like more like, I would say, private kind of a, a, a, a customer or usage, but, uh, you know, you have several like campuses in the US where they have their own buses and, uh, y- airports is for the, the, you know, from bringing people from the, the parking lot to the, to the terminal.
So, uh, this is what we focus on. I see. Um, and it, it sounds like y- you’re, you’re covering a lot of ground. there. Uh, uh, you know, one, one thing I, I didn’t hear you mention, y- you know, you, you talked about, uh, being, being efficient and, putting the, the right vehicle on the right route, you know, for the expected capacity that, you’re going to need. Uh, you, you mentioned safety.
Uh, but what about cost? How, how would this compare to me going out and, buying, you know, a tr- traditional
40-foot, uh, vehicle? Yeah. Are, are we, are we talking, you know, 80% of the cost? And does it make sense from a financial perspective for, the agency to consider this? I would say that this is, uh, h- why, why it makes sense, it’s, uh, from, from the by numbers, you know, from, from the, from the budgetary side, you know. Uh, the, a mid-size bus, it’s around like 25%, uh, cheaper than a full-size bus for, for a battery electric, battery electric, you know.
Uh, so, um, after that, it consume for the same range, because our bus, we have the same range, you know, as a full-size bus. Um, uh, we, we use like a, we, we need, you can charge it with, uh, a less time, smaller charger. So it means that you have costs for the bus, but also you have costs for your chargers. Uh, you use less, uh, electricity, uh, so and, it’s, uh, you use less space in your depot. Considering that an electric bus, the charger take around 20% of the bus space.
So, if you replace a 40-foot diesel bus to a 40-foot battery electric bus, you need 20% of the bus space a- and additional space for the charger.
So, if you don’t really need to have to replace a, a full-size diesel bus for in term of ridership, for so, you can have a smaller vehicle, uh, you, you, you pay less for your, your charger, and you have, uh, you don’t have an issue about the space in your depot.
So this is how everything makes sense. I see. And, and- Uh, I, I, I can add maybe just, just I just forgot something. Compared to a hybrid- Uh,
40-foot bus, we, we are, like, relatively at the same price. So if you don’t, uh, if you don’t… Uh, so a, a hybrid bus, you know, we use, uh, diesel, uh, diesel.
So, uh, or CNG, uh, you know. So, um, we are, are more, more or less at the same price. So after that, the operation, uh, it costs less our bus than, a hybrid bus because you use, uh, uh, you don’t- you use electricity instead of diesel.
The diesel prices now those times it’s very high, like, I would say. But, uh, also for, where you reduce is for maintenance, you know, considering that a diesel bus you need to e- e- hybrid, you need to, to u- to do a lot of maintenance for filters.
Uh, you know, all, all this APA and all the, stuff related, the maintenance related to those, uh, um, uh, diesel aspect. Yeah. A- and that’s, um, what I’ve learned to be one of the most, uh, difficult factors when it comes to electrifying fixed route fleet.
Uh, you know, to your point, like the, the charging stations, the chargers, or even the in-route chargers so you can have range, uh, they’re quite expensive. And, and yes, the, the other piece is the amount of, uh, power, the electricity you consume, it could, uh, also be costly depending on the times that you’re charging and how much power you’re using. So let me ask you for, for, the, uh, charging, um, technologies or, or how does the, charging works. It, it, uh, is it pantograph also or does it have that type of pantograph, uh, charging? Is it like, plug in? Like, h- how is the, the charging technology for, these vehicles? We, we have enough, uh, energy to, for a day, uh, operation, uh, at, uh, you know, uh, at, uh, uh, at 12 year of usage. So, uh, we, we put a lot of, uh, batteries inside the bus. So to, uh, for, to have a v- … And we target, you know, not, uh, as, uh, the bus, uh, goes, uh, out of the, the plant and we deliver and, uh, you will have all of this range. It’s for also at the, at, uh, 12 year of operation that we are considering the range, uh, the, the required range. Uh, you can charge it with plug-in, uh, or, uh, pantograph. We are, uh, we have an option for pantograph. Uh, I would, uh- Yeah … suggest that, you know, our… The idea is like, to charge the, bus overnight and use it during the day. Um, you could, y- y- normally there is a lot of, uh, energy for this kind of operation. It costs less, you know, using a plug-in, uh, charger.
It’s, uh, y- you can charge overnight with a, you know, 150K, uh, kilowatt, uh, uh, 150 kilowatt, uh, charger in within like a three, three hours, or you can use like a smaller chargers to charge if you have more time, you know, for, uh, uh, up to a 50 kilowatt, uh, charger w- within like, uh, six, six hours. Today’s episode is brought to you by
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Oh, wow, okay. So the, the, there’s plenty of options. And, you know, I asked, uh, about a pantograph because that’s typically one of the most expensive ones- Yeah … when it comes to infrastructure. And, and I like the fact that pretty much you’re building the, the vehicles with, uh, not thinking about opportunity charging, but like being able to withhold the day of operations so they can go and run the service and then come back and get the charging back, uh, at the depot.
So, you know, you pretty much, uh, as far as I understand, you build this vehicle from the ground up. So h- could you tell us a little bit of how did your aerospace background, uh, influence the way the, you approach all the different materials, the design, the weight, um, eh, that, that you put into this vehicle?
What are the things in your background and being able to start from scratch looking at- Yeah … what’s in the industry, right? Like you said, like, “Oh, we should do this instead. Oh, the, the, these are the things that are different from what everybody else is offering out there that we need to do to drive more efficiency on these vehicles.” Yeah. So starting, you know, at the beginning from the voice of customer, you know. So before cutting metal to make a prototype, we went to see the customer and we say, “Okay, uh, can you, uh, come…” We, we define, you know, the… We had some ideas, you know, of, uh, if you look at our bus, you will, you will see, you will notice that the wheels are, uh, you know, at the, uh, extremity of the vehicle.
So, uh, we re- at least, uh, this means when you are in the cabin, we remove the wheels or the wheelhouse from the cabin. So it’s a completely, uh, different, like, yeah, I would say cabin configuration. More, it provide more flexibility, you know, to, to put, uh, your wheelchair location or to put seats how the customer want to configure the bus. We don’t have the wheels inside the cabin, the, the wheelhouse. So after that we build- Mm … we build some mock-ups, like, uh, we start with cardboard mock-ups.
And this is how, you know, in the aerospace when you start a, a aerospace program, you, you don’t build like a prototype in metal and it costs a lot, you know. So, so first you want to have- Yeah … the feedback from customer. So we, we were like, uh, and this is new in transit, you know. You ask a, a transit, uh, bus, uh, manager, I was like, “Can you bring, uh, like a, a driver and, uh, some of your team, you know, to, to visit, like, our cardboard full scale mock-up?” And they were like, “Ah, you want, you want- … you want us to visit a mock-up? You, you, you… First, first, the first thing you want our comments.”
You know, this is like, uh, this is something that was very new for them, you know. “Ah, you, you want our comments?” So after that, yeah, come. So they visited, you know, we made a lot of, uh, validation with a f- a cardboard mock-up and, uh, you know, for the cabin to, to, to, with wheelchair to show that we have a very, very accessible vehicle, like, um, the, the, the most accessible vehicle, like transit vehicle in the industry. After that, we also work around the, the driver workplace, so to make sure that it’s ergonomic. And also, you know, w- one of the topic was to impr- we listened that it was important to r- improve safety. So what, what can you do as an OEM to improve safety? So we, we, we… To improve, you know, the driver field of view, this is one point, you know. There are still having some accidents, you know, in North America about buses, uh, uh, killing peoples. So by improving, you know, the, the field of view is something, you know, that can improve the, the safety. So we re- we work very hard to reduce and, uh, to have a narrow A pillar, you know, in the front.
So we have a full, like, a, a, we improve the field of view. So the question was for the, the, the operator, where should we put, w- which angle and where we should we put that narrow pillar? So we did, uh, a lot of validation with the, with the drivers. “Okay, where, where is the, the best location?”
And, uh, so after that we did, like, a, a new validation, but now, with a, a, you know, a wood mock-up. And after that, finally we did, like, a first metal prototype. So this is, like, the, the, the, the way that, uh, aerospace or the best practices, you know, when you build, you design a new kind of vehicle or… I, I would say, like, uh, when you build something for humans, so you need to, to validate, like, the ergonomics, you need to validate a lot of things. So this is why the approach, uh, regarding the, the aerospace model thing that we are doing differently, uh, about, you know, uh, working with suppliers, you know. But very, like, a very har- or highly integrated, uh, components.
We, we only think about final assembly. We don’t do, like, in our plant, like, a welding. It’s, like, bolted. So we have a, a modular structural concept, which is all about, uh, bolting, riveting, no welding.
So this is, like, something that, uh, uh, um, uh, it’s quite, uh, different and, uh, the, the… We don’t work with steel bar. We, we have suppliers who produce, like, the, those s- uh, um, uh, structure frame system which the, the, uh, we receive, like, uh, ready to, to be assembled. So, uh, this is, like, another different approach. Um, and this is, like, this is a model which is scalable because, you know, the transit industry, it’s not a infinite growth model, you know. It’s a cyclic model.
So you have good years with, like, s- you know, uh, transit, like, grants. You have, uh, years that, uh, you know, for a political reason there are less grants, and, uh, you have other better years. So it’s a cyc- it’s a cyclic model. So this, you need to have a model which, uh, uh, your, your, your company can have, uh, uh, uh, be a- aligned with that kind of mo- uh, business model. Y- yeah, you’re absolutely right, Nicolas. It, it is very cyclical.
Um, a- as you were speaking there, I, you know, I started to think of, you know, how, how complex this could be. Um, e- especially taking it from, you know, prototype to the real world where you actually have these things driving, you know, with a, uh, with an operator right now. Maybe you’re, maybe you’re, uh, planning for an autonomous vehicle later, but, uh, right now, you’ve got an operator there. It’s this electric vehicle, and you’ve, you’re building it from the ground up from scratch.
Uh, you know, what were some of, your biggest concerns going into this? You know, when, when you’re hearing the, feedback from, uh, from these transit agencies, you, you got this feedback from the show about the size of the vehicle.
A- any, any doubts going through your head initially about like, “Hmm, i- is this going to work because of X, Y, and Z reason?” Um,
I would say that, uh, we, we always, like… The, the, what is important is to keep this, this discussion with the, to take, to, to keep the, the, um, the comments or, the, the, the, communication between the, customer and the, the, the, the company leadership to make sure that, uh, we always, like, uh, the solution is aligned with the need, the solution is working.
Uh, you don’t want to, we don’t want to build, like, custom products. Uh, but it’s important, and this is, like, very, uh, uh, you know, uh, uh, s- it’s very, like, um, hard. Like, you, you want to provide options, but not too much. You don’t want to put too much customization, but some customer wants customization.
So this is, like, the, the thing that is, like, quite, uh, uh, there, there’s a, a very thin line into this. Uh, and this is where it can make, uh, uh, uh, success or a failure.
Uh, regarding, you know, the, the, and sometime you have risk when you build a, a bus from, ground up and everything. It’s always important to have, uh, the, idea from La- at, Latenda, you know, we don’t want to reinvent the, wheel. Nothing about that, you know. So we always work with, uh, uh, key, key players, like, uh, taking, like, uh, some suppliers already in the market.
Uh, always try to get, uh, uh, partners who, who already have, uh, experience and, and, can, uh, mitigate the risk, uh, in what you want to do. And, uh, can, uh, it’s always, it’s, it’s a teamwork. You know, the, the, the team, the, your, your, your, your suppliers, uh, the, the, the, the people, like, uh, you work with for the customers and, uh, all of that, you know, i- it’s, it’s a collaboration work.
Yeah, I can, I can certainly understand how, it would require a lot of collaboration, uh, before, you know, you get this fully road ready. But when you’re taking it on the road for the first time, and, you know, correct me if I’m wrong here, but I think you did some testing with TransLink.
Yeah. You know, how did that go? What, what was that like when you get it out on the road? I’m sure it’s a pretty exhilarating feeling, but are you, are, are you learning anything by seeing it out in the real world that, you know, you can’t see, uh, on a, a CAD drawing or, you know, with a little prototype?
Uh, can you just walk us through that? Yeah. So, you know, what, um, uh, also just, just before doing some tests with the transit organization, you know, we also worked with, uh, key experts in the industry and, taking a lot of in- information from people retired from, uh, you know, a, a bus manufacturing company.
or, uh, work at the transit organization. So, we have a lot of people, uh, uh, you know, provide us a lot of feedback, you know, before, uh, doing, certifying the vehicle or going to do some demonstration with customers.
So, uh, yes, we always learn, you know, and it’s good to take feedback when you do. So for example, when we went to, for TransLink, so w- we prepared the, the, the, the vehicle to, to send it over like, uh, from, uh, from the East Coast to the West Coast.
And, uh, we had our team there, and, uh, the c- the, the c- uh, trans- trans- it’s coast mountain bus, you know, uh, with, uh, under like a, a TransLink. And, you know, they were like, uh, they wanted to test like the hills because it’s like, you know, on the West Coast there are some hills, and is it going to be able to, to take, uh, big hills?
And, um, how, how, does it going to, uh, uh, uh, to behave? And we, you know, we, we passed a lot of, uh, of those tests that they wanted to test.
After two weeks, uh, we said, “What next?” And they said, “Oh, we don’t, uh, we don’t know. We don’t know.” So we said, like, “If, if you want, we, we could, uh…” And they said, “Okay, we can potentially we could t- test,” you know. Uh, uh, and so they, they, they were like getting, getting confidence, and, uh, they propose us, you know, to, to do some, uh, uh, taking some, uh, passenger inside, like following some tests to, just to make sure that, to make sure that the vehicle would be ready to take people, because we already that, have done that in the past.
And, uh, you know, we put it, they put it in a, a s- a service to take, take people, uh, during like, uh, two weeks. And, uh, we d- we got, uh, you know, uh, ver- uh, very good feedback. They, they took the feedback from the, the passengers. We t- they took feedback from the drivers. Uh, so, uh, uh, we had our team there to take also those feedbacks. Uh, so, you know, but it was quite positive because we had no mechanical, you know, nothing like about mechanical issues.
Uh, so, so it, it went very well. Excellent. And, and, and, you know, the, the– it’s very difficult for agencies, um, you know, when, uh, they’re looking at electrification, and there’s no options in the market and some that are emerging, um, and coming to the market, uh, li- like, you know, your solution, um, with, uh, ElecTrip, right? That’s the name that you have for your vehicle- Yeah, yeah … ElecTrip?
Yeah. So- Exactly … w- w- what’s, what are some of the, um, factors or, you know, things that agencies more often underestimate when, when they start going towards battery electric buses?
What, what are some of the things that you believe in the agency side they’re just not fully understanding about electric technology? Um, I would say that, uh, the, uh, infrastructure, like, uh, to, to, to plan the infrastructure, the chargers, uh, to, to, you know, to all, all the, all, all the infrastructure related.
It also, uh, when you have, uh, electric buses in your fleet, uh, you need to train the, you know, the mechanics. You need to train the drivers.
Uh, it, it also impacting your processes, internal processes inside the transit organization. Um, you, you need like, uh, uh… So, so it’s not only about… And it goes to planning, it goes to, uh, uh…
So there are some, some processes that are not in place when, when it’s not only like purchasing an electric bus, but all the, the processes that, that are impacted, uh, by, uh, having that kind of, uh, uh, vehicle, you know. So this is like, um, uh, uh, sometimes, you know, it needs to be considered. And this is like the, the big thing because it’s not only purchasing a bus. It’s like, and we, we hear it, uh, from some, uh, transit organization who already, who have done that.
And, uh, uh, it, it, it impact, you know, uh, uh, all the, all, all, all the, the processes in, in, uh, the internal processes of a transit organization.
And so some of your customers for ElecTrip and some of the future customers, um, what have you heard, uh, as feedback or you predict, uh, you know, future customers’ feedback will be about your vehicles? Like what, what are some of those benefits or why should they let’s say, you know, get one of these vehicles versus maybe get another battery electric from a different manufacturer that is like the 40-foot, um, you know, uh, the fully, uh, 40-foot bus or just a combustion engine vehicle? Like what, what are some of those benefits of, uh, choosing your vehicle?
But, uh, you know, I will start with, uh, I, I will start with, uh, the people that they, they, they need to move. So the, the, the passengers will notice something very, uh, like, uh, it’s a game changer about, uh, as a passenger you will change, like, uh, more easier to, to board, uh, better comfort. So this is like, uh, uh, any kind of climate, you know, a cold climate, a warm climate.
Uh, the, you know, the– we, we work very hard like for, uh, air conditioning, uh, to be very effective, you know, a fully insulated vehicle. Uh, so, um, uh, if it works in, uh, in Quebec where we are, you know, it works everywhere in North America. So, uh, the passenger they will be, uh, very, uh, they will like it. The drivers, the drivers, y- they will, the, the, the engagement will be better, you know, because they will, they will– it’s very… Our bus, you know, we have some, uh, innovation. I mentioned at the beginning that our bus is different in term of shape because we put the wheels at both extremities. But we implemented the, the latest vehicle technologies. Like for example, we have a rear steering axle. Like, uh, we have the, the forward steer, uh, axle, but also the rear axle or steer. So for a driver, you know, you drive it like a car, not like a bus anymore.
So you, you, you turn at, at an intersection, you keep the, your same lane. You don’t need to go on the other lane. Uh, you know, so, so the driver engagement, uh, we also improve the ergonomic of the driver workplace, having a lot of places for water bottles and other stuff that we listen when we did the voice of customer.
Um- Regarding the, uh, operation, uh, you know, it consume less energy. Regarding the cost, uh, it’s, uh, you, you, you, and it takes less place in the depot.
Um, I would say that from the, um… So, so this is something that, uh, that, that will, uh, that will, uh, will impact when they, they will use, uh, w- our buses. First, just to mention that we will deliver our first buses next year. So now we’re, we have, uh, orders in transit and, uh, airports, and, uh, we are starting, you know, to, uh, to, uh, we’ll deliver buses, uh, next year. Wow. Uh, uh, I like, um, a few aspects that you mentioned there, and it’s like folks sometimes that have dab into better electric technology for buses, they think about the technology that they saw years ago, and like maybe they had bad experience with this one bus that they purchased, you know, five, six years ago. But it seems that a lot of aspects of, you know, your vehicle are improved versions, uh, after all those, you know, iterations of vehicles that have been in the market, you know, on, uh, latest and greatest battery technology.
But I, I like how you express the benefits for the rider, but also for the driver. And, like the safety aspects, they- they’re very important. You know, 40-foot buses, uh, typically have a lot of blind spots and, and to your point, a lot of the, uh, pedestrian collisions and, and, and, and accidents in general have to do with the fact that there is just so many blind spots. It’s very difficult to maneuver.
So, you know, I applaud you for looking at the safety features and how to make it easier for the driver to operate it. Like you, you said, it, it kind of feels like driving your car.
Yeah, like it- Not like driving, you know, a bus … The, the big example is like for a driver, you don’t have, you know, the overhang, you know, like, uh, what to consider when you do a turn because, uh, it’s at the rear of the bus. So this is like something that they don’t need to manage.
So, and from the… It’s very, it’s not very, uh, it’s not hard, you know, the transition from a, a normal 40-foot to our bus. It’s, uh, quite relatively easy to adapt.
Mm-hmm. Very interesting. Yeah. I, I, I- But, uh, I just want to add something. It’s true, you know, and, uh, there are some companies like, for example, Proterra, who was in the industry, uh, for buses and, uh, you know, uh, this, uh, is a, now as being also a new company, we, we need to explain why we will have success and why we are different. It’s not only because we have a, a good product, but also…
So, but what, what happened, you know, with, uh, with, uh, uh, normally with the transit organization with, with who we speak with, you know, when they see the product, they see that, oh, okay, this is like, uh, very well done. So when they see the… So the, the bus is a good sell- selling element because they see, they can feel that, uh, we put a lot of effort to build. Like for when they see our demo vehicle, that is like, uh, very well made and done and behave well.
So this is like, uh, how, but yes, there are, it’s hard like, uh, from what happened from, uh, previous, uh, companies. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And, and so in terms of, uh, backwards compatibility, like, uh, uh, you know, if they already purchased some chargers or some pantograph, like, uh, how easy it is to use, you know, uh, to adapt to, to the charging needs of these vehicles. That’s one part of the question, and particularly for the US market.
Yeah. Our, our bus is market ready for US. You know, we are, uh, certified in the US. Uh, we are, uh, um, uh, we are, uh, uh, we know about the requirements for the Buy America requirement. We just, you know, we start our entrance entry in the US by, uh, qualifying for the, uh, some state contracts. So we are already approved in the Washington state contracts, which is like the biggest in the US.
We, we, we, uh, won, uh, Colorado State contracts, and we are under also the, uh, Montana State contracts. So, um, this is like, uh, uh, how we are like starting and, uh, uh, uh, this, uh, entrance in the, in the US. After that, there are some Buy America requirements.
So our components are already meeting the 70% of the components. Uh, we are, uh, our target is like, uh, to start working with universities and airports, and after that, uh, to come with the, to be Buy America with the Altoona test done, uh, uh, to arrive in the market at, uh, uh, end of
2028. Uh, so, uh, this is what, what, what we do. So as you start thinking about, you know, rolling these vehicles out, what do you feel like you, you have to show? What do you feel like you have to prove?
I know there are some, uh, you know, comparisons to maybe some of those prior manufacturers. You know, you all mentioned Proterra earlier. Is it that, you know, perhaps that electrification can work, or is there something else there that you feel like this, this is really what we’re out to do, and we have to show the world? Yeah. We have to, we have to, uh, you know, deliver buses and, uh, make, make them running and, uh, this is like, uh, the, the big next step, you know, to, to enter into the market and to, I would say, open and to, to, uh, you know, to, um, uh…
There is a status quo now, uh, and we, we need to, uh, to provide confidence to the transit organization that we can deliver, we can make it. You know, it start, it, it takes time to build a, a, a sustainable company, and we are taking all the, to be, to provide a robust, uh, vehicle, uh, uh, efficient, robust, reliable.
So we are making all the steps for that, and it takes time, you know, to, to, to build a, a, a true, like a company. And, uh, this is, uh, the, the step we are taking for that. Wow. So sounds awesome. And, and this is a great conversation, and, uh, I look forward to see what happens, uh, once your vehicles are in production and, and they start getting delivered. Uh, hopefully we can see some, uh, transit agents here in the US that are expanding their battery electric te- um, you know, technologies and program to add a 30-foot bus. That would be a good complement for those, um, areas that you cannot easily serve with a 40-foot or a 60-foot bus, and it seems that the turning radius so much better on these.
Um, Nicholas, we’re coming towards the close end of our conversation today. Uh, there’s a couple of sections that we do before we wrap up. The first one is rapid fire. So I’m gonna ask you a quick, short question, and if you could give me a quick, short answer, first thing that comes in mind.
Are you ready for that? Yes. Bus or rail? Uh, we say bus when it’s, when it’s good, rail when it’s needed. A favorite transit system.
Uh, I like the Chicago transit system. Like, uh, I, I went there recently and, uh, very interesting. Oh, excellent. Yeah, that, that’s definitely a good system, uh, over there in Chicago. Uh, most u- uh, most underrated feature of a transit bus.
I would say, uh, all the components that it can bring failure, like, uh, you know, the door. Door is like, uh, most underrated, I would say.
Uh, compressor, uh, you know, uh, uh, windshield service, you know, because if you have a crack, uh, the bus cannot run. So all those thing. Yep. Mm, mm, okay. Those are some good ones, and pretty sure a lot of folks from maintenance listening would concur.
Uh, biggest misconception about electric buses. Um, uh,
I would say the speed for regenerative braking. The limit, the speed limit for regenerative braking. This is something that, uh, uh, it’s, uh, it’s interesting because we noticed that, uh, you know, after like, uh, at, at, at a certain speed, uh, when, when you, you brake, there is like, uh, the, the regenerative braking doesn’t work, so you need to finish with the braking.
So if you operate at slow speed, sometimes y- you will, you will be under the, this, uh, limit, speed limit, so you would, uh, impact the efficiency of the vehicle.
Yeah, and, and, and I’ve heard that a lot, uh, from operators that actually run electric vehicles or, or drive them. You have to learn how to work that regenerative braking. One thing operators notice that engineers sometimes miss. I would say the ergonomic of the driver workplace, operator workplace.
Hmm. And one technology that will change buses over the next decade. First, for sure the battery, uh, e- efficiency, like the battery, the energy will be like, uh, still better, better. And potentially, like, uh, autonomous vehicle, but this is, we are talking about autonomous vehicles since 10 years, so we’ll see in 10 years where, where we are at. Uh, that’s a good point. It, it’s still, it does seem like it’s a little ways away, at le- at least, uh, here in North America.
Uh, Nicholas, this has been a, a great conversation. Really love talking to you a- about your journey, how you, you know, started at Bom dia and, a- and grew this thing on your own.
I’m sure that there was some help along the way, but, you know, it’s, it’s you behind this thing. And you have a bus that you’re about to, you know, to, to deliver in the coming years, so kudos to you and what you’ve done.
Uh, I took some notes as a part of one of our recurring segments. We, we do this, uh, key takeaways section, and there were a few items that really popped out when you mentioned them.
I… and you mentioned it there at the end, again, uh, the, the experience of the operator. You, you really seem to focus on the experience, the comfort, and, and of course, safety as well. I know f- safety is paramount, but, uh,
I think the operator’s, uh, uh, you know, disposition, their feeling about, you know, being in that operator seat matters a lot, and that can often be overlooked. They’re sitting in the vehicle for, you know, uh, 10, 12 longer hours a day. Uh, it needs to be comfortable. It needs to be a place where you feel like you can, you can sit down and, you know, not have your back hurting and, uh, be able to have some mobility at the end of the day when you, you wanna go home to your family.
Um- Yeah, we call it, uh, the operator workplace. Operator workplace. Yeah. I love that. This is the- Oh, wow … motivation, yeah. Very, very clever.
Yeah. And, you know, it’s, it’s important to call that out a- and to have a name for it because it seems like it’s a part of your ethos, right? Your- Yeah …
uh, y- your approach, your philosophy a- as a company, it seems to be to place the focus on the operator. Okay. Yeah, I would say that, I would say that our focus is for everybody because j- just this is the challenge, okay? We, the, the, the com- we, there is, in our market, there is a decision maker, there is an operator, and there is a passenger. So you need to make a bus for the, to transport passengers, but there are some, you know, uh, I would say transit organization who operate and provide service, and you have a decision maker who say, “We want that,” you know, political side and everything. So we need to please all those three, but they all, all three, they are different people or organization. So this is different and, and difficult, and the passenger at the end doesn’t have any decision on the purchase of the bus.
So you, you make a bus for passengers, but they don’t have the dec- the only decision is, like, for who they will vote, and this is can do the, you can do the loop. If they vote for a good person, the, a good decision maker will decide to put, uh, spend money on transit, the transit organization will have money to, to, to execute their projects, and you will have, uh, p- passengers. But it’s all goes together, but this is different because if I sell a car, you know, the decision maker might be For if you are the, if you are the person who will, uh, the, the drive it, maybe your wife will be the decision-maker or you, you will pay for it and you will drive it, you know? So this is different.
But in our industries, like, we, we need to, uh, uh, do something for all those three people. Uh, that’s a great point.
Uh, and I, I think you’re seeing it holistically. Uh, I, I really love what you said there, uh, you know, no notes. I, I, I do just have a couple other notes, uh, some takeaways.
Uh, w- there’s a… It seems like you, you have a very tight, uh, feedback loop where you are prototyping, uh, you know, you got the, the feedback from operators from the, the ri- well, maybe not from the riders, but, um,
I, and you correct me there if, if that’s wrong, but definitely from the decision-makers from what you told us today. And then you also mentioned that once this is out on the road, y- you know, you have to do some training.
And those, those steps seem, uh, like they’re, they’re very comprehensive. Uh, did I get any of those wrong, or would you say them a little bit differently?
Um, uh, I would say that, uh, the, the, the training y- you, you need, we, we integrate, we integrate that into our, um, our, um, uh…
W- when we, when we deliver the bus, we, we, we provide some training, like, uh, to make sure that the, the… We train the trainer, you know?
So- Right … th- this is what we, what we do. And to make sure that they, they are, uh, uh, they can operate safely and, uh, maintain safely the, the vehicle.
Absolutely. Well, Nicolas, again, this has been a really wonderful conversation. Thank you so much for your time. I, I wanna give you an opportunity to share with our listeners where people can learn more about Latinda and you if they wanna connect with you. Yeah. The easiest way is, like, uh, uh, LinkedIn. So we, we do some, uh, post on LinkedIn and, uh, connect via LinkedIn. This is the easiest way.
Yeah. Okay. Excellent. Well, again, thank you so much, Nicolas. And to our listeners, thank you as well. We really appreciate you listening, uh, every week. We’ll be back next Monday with another episode of
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