The community impact over total ridership is what matters the most for communities in, in, the rural parts of the country. Stop
Requested. This is Stop Requested. by ETA. I’m Christian. And I’m Levi. These are real conversations with the innovators, operators, and advocates driving improvements in public transportation.
Today, we’re joined by Nicholas Sofoul, Executive Director of the North Central Regional Transit District, better known as the Blue Bus, in northern New Mexico. Blue Bus serves a. region covering 10,000 square miles, connecting rural communities to healthcare, employment, groceries, and other essential services.
We’ talk about the challenges of delivering transit across such a large and diverse region, from workforce shortages and limited cellular connectivity to working with tribal communities and introducing rural rapid transit.
Here’s our conversation with Blue Bus, Executive Director, Nicholas Sofoul. Welcome back to Stop Requested. We’re back with another great episode, and this time we’re joined with a phenomenal leader in our industry,
Mr. Nicholas Sofoul. He’s the Executive Director at the North Central Regional Transit District, Blue Bus. Nick, how you doing today? Doing well, Christian. Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to, uh, talk a little bit about rural transit in
New Mexico. Yes. It’s, it’s, it’s gonna be an exciting conversation and, and definitely all of our, uh, listeners out there that have, uh, that portion of rural operations, uh, we hope that we can give them some insight and, and they can, you know, see themselves reflected in some of the, the challenges, but also exciting things that are happening at your agency. So Nick, welcome to
Stop Requested. Uh, for listeners that are unfamiliar, uh, with, you know, the North Central Regional Transit District, Blue Bus, could you describe a little bit the district, the region, the community it serves and, and the role in the community? Yeah, absolutely. So NCRTD, or Blue Bus as we like to call it for short, uh, covers a 10,000 square mile service area that’s roughly the state, the size of the state of Massachusetts. So-
Wow … a regional service agency that’s the size of some US states, uh, covers a four county region in north central New Mexico, the most populous city being, uh, the city of Santa Fe, the state capital of New Mexico.
Um, and the district has a lot of, uh, a lot of things that are very dynamic and different, right? We, um, we have the lowest elevations in our district are around 5,000 feet, but what a lot of folks don’t realize when they think about New Mexico. is we also have, uh, uh, ski basins.
So our service goes from 5,000 feet all the way up to nearly 12,000 feet. Wow. Covers 10,000 square miles, and covers, uh, eight tribal pueblos as well as the, uh, Jicarilla Apache Nation.
So we have a very unique community and, uh, the, the role in, in this region, is really about critical connections, uh, for the community. You know, Blue Bus is about connecting people, you know, to, uh, to opportunities for fresh foods, for, uh, for healthcare, for employment, behavioral health, um, and to a lesser extent, but still very important and certainly popular in the winter, is, uh, to our ski basins and, uh, recreational uses. Wow. That, that’s, that’s a whole array of uniqueness and like, you know, purpose-driven operations in, in, in your community. Wow. That, that’s very unique the way that, that you’re describing it. Could you tell us a little bit about the main priorities, uh, for you as, as you’re leading, uh, your organization to the next chapter? Yeah, absolutely.
So this organization is, uh, fairly young. Blue Bus has about 21 years of history. It was established as the very first regional transit. district in the entire state of New Mexico. So, you know, going back, you know, with this or- agency in ve- very many cases is kind of setting the way and setting the path for, um, you know, regional transit in New Mexico. The agency spent a lot of time early in its years of development developing the, uh, capital facilities it needed in order to have a good service, you know? So, you know, we’ve opened up, uh, new operation centers in areas like
Taos, New Mexico, you know, as well as a maintenance garage here’ in, uh, in Española, New Mexico. Mm-hmm. But as I’m coming into the organization, what I’m finding now is we really need to work on the workforce itself, you know, and working on how do we improve operations, how do we improve, um, the lives of all of our workers for better employee retention, you know, and kind of looking inward to try to figure out how do we mature the organization, you know, from a transit operations perspective now that we have all these really great new modern facilities to work out of.
So N- Nick, how long have you been at your current agency, at Blue Bus? It will be, uh, just under one year. I started in, uh, on Halloween of last year. Oh, okay. And it was a, it was a spooky first day. Okay, all right, so come out of the… I like that.
That’s good. Uh, well, well, you know, so I, I know you’ve had a couple stops before you got to New Mexico. Uh, if… Could you elaborate on kinda how you got to be Executive Director, at Blue
Bus and, you know, what those steps were to be able to get to that point? Yeah. So, um, a, a lot of people end up falling into the transit industry. For me,
I actually wanted to be in public transportation. My background is in urban planning. I have a master’s in urban planning, and, uh, found myself working at, uh, Broward County Transit almost right out of grad school as an associate planner, and really cut my teeth in the industry, doing, uh, ridership reporting. I was doing ridership NTD reporting-
… uh, back in the day? when you didn’t have technology to, uh, to, count people, so you’re watching the videos of all the ons and, offs for passenger miles traveled calculations manually. So, you know- Wow … really, really got my start, you know, in kind of the foundations of, you know, transit metrics and data.
Um, then worked more so on the, uh, on the planning side of the house. Um, left Broward County Transit for a short period of time to see what it would be like to do general transportation planning, and really what, what that, what that change led me to was really that my heart was in transit, and that’s where I belonged, you know? And that’s what brought me back into Broward County Transit, and then later, uh, the opportunity in, uh, in California, Oceanside with, uh, North
County Transit District. You know, and, and every single … job that I’ve been through, you know, starting as kind of that, that entry level planner doing all of the data and analysis and rider reporting, you know, to having the opportunities to work on the, uh, the sales tax referendum, Penny for Transportation in Broward County, which ultimately passed and is providing a lot of funding for the transit initiatives right now, in, uh, in that jurisdiction.
You know, and then working on, uh, on projects that required lots of collaboration with, other sections, you know, doing the, uh, fare open loop payments, you know, working on, um, on the, uh, zero emission bus, transition, things of that nature, you know, has really had to help me to, uh, get me to the point of understanding the industry enough to enter the role as an executive director in my current, my current spot in Blue Bus.
A- and, you know, I, I know that y- your, your role now in the service environment, e- everything is entirely different from what you experienced, I’m sure, in, at Broward and, then also in North County Transit District, but I would think that’ there are some lessons that’ you could carry over from those experiences.
Are there a few that kind of come to the top of your mind, uh, about- Yeah … you know, how you’re able to make that transition, and then apply that to now being, uh, an executive director, you know, the, the top dog at the agency? Yeah, yeah. I mean, the, the, the very first thing that comes to mind is the importance of investing in your people, in your organization.
I, I think I’m only at where I am today because there were people in Broward County and at North County Transit District that saw something in me and gave me an opportunity to thrive, and gave me a space to be able to engage in professional development, you know, in a way that allowed me to go outside the confines of my job description.
And so for me, it’s carrying that forward to my current organization and giving folks in Blue Bus that same opportunity, you know, to be able to learn more, develop professionally, you know, and ultimately be able to give back to the community at a higher level. You know, I heard leaders breed leaders and, and, um, you know, that, that, that you mentioned is so important, right? Like, when you have your mentors and you have those opportunities, um, you know, to be able to grow and shine. Like, people are taking a, a, a, a, you know, they’re betting on you. Like, they’re, they’re really, they, they believe in you before sometimes you even b- believe in yourself.
And, and it is now that you are in a position of leading the organization, that you get to do that for other people a- and then bring them up. So, you know, I really, um, uh, commend your focus on the workforce, and then trying to get them to the next level. You, you know,
I talk to professionals in different industries, and, uh, we always come down to the conclusion, like, organizations are not the buildings and the buses and, you know, all that. Very important as well, but it’s the people.
If you don’t have the right people, if you don’t develop those skills and the know-how, you know, all of this stuff is, is not, you know, it’s not gonna work, uh, on its own.
A- a- absolutely. Absolutely. It’s, it’s so, it’s so critical, and so Blue Bus is in that spot right now where we have the, uh… a lot of the physical pieces are now finally in place after 20 years. The focus now is kind of turning inward, okay, and h- what do we, how do we prepare ourselves for the next 20 years of service in New Mexico? And, and, and from my perspective, it’s really focusing in on our people and creating the best possible workforce we can. So you, you’ve talked to… it’s been a year. You talked to employees, riders, elected officials, pueblos, tribes, uh, all these different, you know, maybe partners in the community.
What have you learned so far? Like, what are some of the common themes or things that you’re hearing from them? Yeah. Well, when, when I came into, uh, to Blue Bus, you know, this was kind of on the, on the heel still of, you know, still trying to recover from the, uh, COVID-19 pandemic.
You know, f- folks in all across the transit industry had it very difficult during that time, but it, I’ll tell you, it really hit rural communities extremely hard. Um, and so this organization was st- was basically in a state of exhaustion when I first got here. You know? Hmm. Folks, folks were really, really burnt out.
You know, the, the, this organization hasn’t had an extra board in six years. You know? Wow. The, uh, the, the extra board is, um, your customer service agent, which all, all of our customer service agent- agents actually have CDLs.
So the customer service agent will get from behind the phone and then start driving the bus, then the phone goes to the supervisors. Oh. And then if we need more people, then the supervisors leave, and as long as we have one supervisor in the office, we feel like that’s, that’s good enough to try to, uh, maintain service.
But having that condition for a period of, you know, going on five years, you know, really, you know, did a lot in terms of, you know, getting folks, you know, really kind of, really kind of burnt out. Uh, this is the first place I’ve ever worked where you can post overtime in operations, and nobody wants to touch it.
It will just stay on the wall unsigned for, for three weeks because folks are just exhausted. And so, you know, coming in, that was the first thing I heard was, was, “Nick, you know, we’ve gone through a t- a period of significant, uh, growth and projects in our f- in our facilities. Administratively, we’re tired from, from, you know, running so fast, doing project after project after project.” But on the operations side, the same level of fatigue where because we’re rural, because these routes, um, some of them have 200 miles, uh, cycle lengths, you know- Hmm
… these are, these are long, long routes. These are not your typical urbanized routes. Um, and so folks were just exhausted. So I, I really, I, I took that to heart when I first came in, and I said, “Okay, what we need to do here is really try to slow down and rebuild. You know, focus on operations, focus on workforce, focus on quality of folks’ time here, you know, instead of just essentially burning folks out, you know?”
And they’re, and they’re, and they’re, and they’re burnt out because they are so dedicated. I will say that. You know, th- this area, these folks in these communities, when you ride a, when you ride Blue
Bus Every one of these operators knows their riders in a way that I’ve never experienced in an urbanized system, where someone gets on, they know their name, they know exactly where they’re going.
Wow. And, and they, and they just start driving there, you know? And they’ll tell them, “All right, th- this, you know, we- you’re going here again, right?” Yeah, ’cause they know exactly their riders, every single… The level of personalization in, uh, in the community is, is really nice at that kind of rural level. Um, and then from the, uh, from the other constituents kinda listed there, I, I think for me was just ha- m- understanding early on that in a region, um, this diverse with so many, uh, uh, tribal pueblo, um, jurisdictions as well as counties and small communities, that you’re gonna have a lot of different perspectives. A- a- and so for me, it was, as I was listening and first starting, giving everyone the space to be able to tell me their perspective, you know, and figure out, you know, how that can work with that moving forward, you know, and kind of achieving, you know, consensus on other things and kind of what each community needs and values. Today’s episode is brought to you by
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Nick, I, I wanna move the conversation along to s- something that came up before we started to record, and that’s this idea of rural rapid transit.
Um, n- now, you know, Christian said that I was probably aware of that. I’m, I’m not, and- … I would think that a lot of our listeners are not aware of what rural rapid transit means.
I re- I just gotta ask pointedly, uh, tell us, you know? Sure. What, what is it? A- absolutely. So you, you don’t hear a lot about any kind of enhanced bus or rapid transit anything kind of in a rural context.
You know, for, for us, th- this project is about creating a frequent service north-south spine through the center of the, uh, center of the community. Ri- right now, um, the Rail Runner, which is a commuter rail run by, um,
Rio Metro, uh, out of Albuquerque- Yeah … provides commuter rail service between, uh, Belen, New Mexico, and Santa Fe, New Mexico. Um, but the, the communities continue northward into, uh, into Blue Bus’s service area from, from Santa
Fe, north. And so there, there’s a need to be able to get people between Santa Fe, Española, and Taos, which is about a 70-mile corridor along mostly, uh, State of New Mexico.
DOT, uh, highways. And so this project is gonna be one that essentially extends the reach of, the commuter rail for that last 70 miles going north, you know, up to, uh, Taos, New Mexico, and so it’s, it’s a really exciting project.
It’s gonna connect, um, our largest communities, you know, as well as the, uh, the route serves seven of the eight tribal pueblos in northern New Mexico in our service area. And so it’s a exciting project from, in terms of, um, in terms of rapid, you know, usually when you think about, uh, you know, bus rapid transit or enhanced bus, you’re thinking about that there’s gonna be some sort of, um, treatment of involving signalization or, um, you know, smart tech, you know, transit signal priority, things like that. I- in this case, the rapid is kind of already there, because it runs mostly on state highways that have very, uh, low traffic volumes. This is not urbanized traffic. Um, so the, the rapid capability is already there.
The, the, the issue is being able to get people to bus stops and mobility hubs to be able to connect to it, you know, and provi- providing a service plan behind it that provides lots of opportunities for folks to make that north-south connection.
Wow, okay. Yeah, so that, that’s what makes it different. It’s not, it’s not bus rapid transit, but like you said, it has that, that rapid, uh, component on it. So tha- that, that’s very interesting on, on how you’re running that. And also, I understand you have some, uh, initiatives related to, uh, zero emissions.
Um, you know, could you tell us a little bit of what you guys are doing, uh, on that regards, on that transition to zero emissions? Yeah. We, are, um, uh, this agency, before my time here, you know, start- adopted a zero emission transition plan, uh, and we started purchasing the zero emission for transits for use in our, uh, our paratransit and, uh, and My Blue Microtransit, uh, network. And so in, in those uses, they’ve worked pretty well, you know, for kind of those, uh, those local trips, local circulation. The agency also then invested in, um, was awarded several low-no grants for low emission, um, larger 35-foot buses. You know, so we have a couple hybrids, and we have some battery electrics.
Um, those are, are proving to be a lot more challenging to be able to implement. Um- Yeah … you know, the, uh, the cycle length of a lot of our routes, you know, coupled with the elevation changes that w- that we have, you know, make a battery electric bus currently not, not the best option for a lot of our routes given our distances, and the limited ability to do any kind of, um, you know, in-route charging. Uh, so there’s a, a limited, um, limited list of routes that we can use these on, but we are implementing them, uh, you know, so we’re gonna ha- um, implement our electric vehicle fleet on our, uh, Taos Ski Valley routes, which go up to the ski basin. Um, those go into, uh, go into service later on this winter.
Um, and then we’re also putting our, uh, some hybrids and some EVs on the Taos Chile Line, which is our primary… It’s the closest thing we have to an urbanized bus route. It’s our highest efficiency route. It operates within the, uh, the town of Taos.
Um, the biggest challenge for us really, uh, other than the, uh, you know, the, the, the general limitations of electric vehicles in this context has really been that this organization up until now has only driven, uh, cutaway buses.
You know, large cutaways. We’ve never really had experience with purpose-built buses that, you know, every other agency in the ur- in the urbanized context, you know, drive every single day. And so for us, that means completely changing how we do business, how we do training, how we, um, how we do maintenance.
You know, our, my, my mechanics are used to, um, are used to working on Ford engines. You know, or if they need a Ford part, they can just go next door and go and get a
Ford part. You know, now having a purpose-built bus, right, with, with, uh, Cummins engines, for instance, you know, and, um, and Allison transmissions, you know.
And so, you know, that’s changing our whole workflows and culture within our maintenance department, uh, which was something that wasn’t, I think… I don’t think it was anticipated previously in just how big of a change it would be to have to be able to accommodate, you know, being able to, um, to, uh, repair those types of vehicles.
Wow. Yeah. That, that, it– So, so how, how do you handle… How long have those vehicles been in operation? Um, so, you know, one piece is, is how long you, you have the, uh, have these vehicles in place. Are you planning for some of these routes, uh, trying to get funding for in-route charging?
I know it’s kind of difficult, not in place, but is that kind of like in the future? And then the, the last component, you know, tying to your maintenance, uh, anything that is happen- happening in the, in the maintenance team to kind of enhance their knowledge, know-how, expertise, how to handle all these different propulsion systems?
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um, well, f- f- first off the top, it’s a lot of training. It’s a lot of training. You know, what, what– In other organizations I’ve worked for, the, uh, the, uh, mechanics already had a lot of experience working on, let’s say, a Cummins engine, for instance, you know? And so, you know, changing it from, um, you know, from natural gas to hydrogen, you know, that there are some sili- there are some similarities for them, you know? In, in, in, in this case, there’s no similarities, and so it’s kind of like training an entire maintenance team from scratch.
So there’s been a lot of investment, you know, in training and making sure everyone’s prepared for these things, um, for the larger buses. Even, even from the operator’s perspective, you know, most of my, uh, most of the operators are driving 22, 24,
26-foot buses and cutaways, you know, and so getting that 35-foot, you know, purpose-built bus is gonna be a change for them, you know? And on these, on these rural roads, you know, where, um, there’s not a lot of turnarounds, there’s no street grid connectivity in a lot of these rural communities, it can be pretty difficult to turn one of these big buses around, um, and to do so safely. Mm-hmm. Uh, so there’s definitely been a lot of focus on, on training. We do have an opportunity, you, you mentioned in-route charging. Right. We have an opportunity through the, uh, the Taos
Ski Corp. that runs the, uh, the ski basin in Taos. Uh, they’ve already implemented, uh, charging stations, uh, up on top of the, uh, the mountain, and so we have a partnership with them where we’ll be able to get some in-route charging at the top when we’re, um, when we’re laying over between trips. So that’s a, that’s an exciting thing that’s already in place for us on that particular service.
Besides that, we don’t have any current plans for additional in-route charging, and we’re kind of l- re-looking right now, um, at what is our zero-emission or low-emission fleet makeup gonna look like in the future. I think that there was a lot of promise that we’d be able to go to all battery electric. You know, coming in now with, um, you know, with some experience, you know, we might have to look at, you know, creating a little bit more of a mixed fleet and not going 100% into battery electric just yet.
So, you know, all, all this kind of points to you and your organization thinking about the, the rider experience, right? What, what is going to get the, uh, get that ridership to the healthcare appointments or to the, um, to the grocery store, you know, find fresh food?
Um, y- you know, something that you mentioned to me prior and, and to Christian prior to starting the conversation, prior to recording, was that there’s not a lot of cell phone service in some of your areas. So I’m, I’m curious, how, how does that, uh, work against, you know, trying to improve the rider experience? I could imagine that planning trips might be difficult but, you know, w- what else would be, uh, you know, can you enlighten us? What, what else is difficult in, in that type of environment?
Yeah, absolutely. Th- there are some areas within the, uh, with, in, within NCRTD’s, uh, region where, um, I think that microtransit would have a lot of promise, you know, given the densities and the dynamics of the area, but these are also areas that have no cell phone connectivity.
You know, and so the, in that case, you know, microtransit, as it currently works, doesn’t do a, doesn’t do a lot of good there if you don’t have the ability to, you know, have the trip on your cell phone. We, uh, we do have the call center available, so we, we can, um, adapt and kind of make the microtransit operate more like a traditional dial-a-ride, and we do that a lot. About, uh, you know, probably upwards of 75% of our microtransit riders actually call as opposed to booking it through our application.
Um, that’s a really popular way of booking trips. But, but also, you know, I’ve been told multiple times that, listen, because there’s a lack of technology, it does make sense to provide them a fixed route schedule where they know the bus is coming at 10:00 a.m. and it’s coming at 3:00 p.m., you know? And even though it’s a very limited amount of service, you know, in a very rural area of low population densities, if you have the fixed route schedule, the folks will know what time they need to be there, and they can be there, you know? And so that’s what we’ve had to do on some of our, um, in some of the areas of our communities where we have really poor cell phone connectivity.
It kind of, you know, kind of canceled, uh, or w- or was an, was a, um, consideration on whether or not we should even use microtransit as a solution in that community, you know, not because we don’t think it would work, but because the, the technology and cellular, cellular connectivity wasn’t there to facilitate the service.
Mick, given your background as a, an urban planner, y- the master’s degree, I’m, I’m sure you’re thinking about how all of your services intertwine, how they connect and, and make a network.
I’m, I’m curious how that, that fixed route service that you provide is, uh, and the on-demand services complement one another. How do you think about that in a rural environment versus, you know, when you were at Broward County and things have, you know, all the roads have a grid network, and it seems like those nodes just line up perfectly?
I’m sure that’s not the case out there in New Mexico. No, no. N-n-not at all. Not at all. A-and, um, you know, we, we make as many connections as we possibly can. We actually recently did some really successful connecting of our, one of our rural routes in Peñasco to, um, to Chimayo.
Um, and I got a… I rode that bus recently, and there was a lot of, uh, praise for being able to make that connection because now, instead of having to go b- basically three-quarters of a way around a clock, you know, where it would take them maybe three hours one way to get to Española, they can do it on a connection, you know, instead do it in, uh, do it in an hour and a half, you know, in about half the amount of time. You know, so, you know, it, it means a lot to be able to make those connections, you know, for folks out there in the community. But, but it’s also very tough to make these connections, so we, um, we made some changes to improve, uh, on-time performance, and to improve the on-time performance, there’s so few trips you don’t have a lot of work with, and so some of the connections actually got lost, right?
Where now we’re being more accurate, and on-time performance was running at, you know, 85-plus percent, you know, on a, uh, on a bus route, which is obvious- which is phenomenal, right? It’s, it’s good on-time performance operationally. But then we started hearing from some of our customers saying, you know, “Listen, the route no longer works for me ’cause now
I can’t make this connection.” And so operationally, it’s working great, you know. From the community value, you know, they’re asking, “Why did you make this change?” Uh, and so it, it was a lesson for us that we have to be extremely sensitive given the limited number of trips that we have, that even when we’re doing something like improving on-time performance, that we don’t lose sight of the ability to make those connections. Wow, yeah. And, and those are those, uh, particularities, right? When you talk to the folks, how to use the system and the challenges or, like, the environmental challenges.
You know, I think that the other piece that is very difficult in a community, uh, like you described is, is that collaboration or also building consensus in any change that you’re gonna do to the service or to the routes, you know, with all the differing communities. Uh, uh, so, so how do you do that?
How do you manage to build consensus and, you know, make these changes or make progress getting everybody to, you know, be behind you and, and supporting the agency and, and the goals?
Yep. Yeah. I think, I think first coming into the organization as, and this is, uh, all thanks to the, you know, to the leaders before me, Blue Bus has an extremely good reputation in the community, and, and it really is seen as, as an organization that has its act together. And so that certainly helps me coming into the role where there’s already a high level of trust amongst our local organizations, um, in, uh, in what we do at Blue Bus. And so that has made it easier than I anticipated, you know, given the number of unique communities and that 10,000 square mile distance, right? You, you c- you can’t do a community meeting about anything, you know, in one part of my district and expect everyone to be there. It would be a three-hour drive one way, uh, to be able to get from the northern part of my service area to the southern part of my service area. And so- Wow … there’s very, there’s a lot of differences there in, uh, in, in the, um, in community opinion. However,
I think folks really do coalesce over what we’re doing. Every project we do at Blue Bus is geared towards, uh, needs-based service, you know, in meeting a core need in the community.
So when you talk to the riders, you know, on, on terms of why are they on Blue Bus, it’s to go to a food bank, it’s to go f- to dialysis, it’s to go to behavioral health, it’s to get prescription medication, and they would have no ability to do that if it wasn’t for us, and there’s no Uber, there is no Lyft, there’s no other transportation providers.
You know, in many cases, there’s no gas stations for, for miles and potentially no cell service, you know? And so we really are the critical link in the community, you know, that all, many people require our services in order to be able to survive, you know, in the rural environment.
And so I think our partners understand that, and they understand the value in what we’re doing in being able to provide those trips, you know, for their communities.
Wow. Yeah, I love that answer. You see, public transit is access to opportunity. And, and based on what you just said, it means that your stakeholders understand that very well. Like, they know how their constituents and people in their community, if it wasn’t for, you know, your service, would not have access to any of that. A-and the thing is, you know, some communities could have, like, great programs, you know, to, to help people, but people cannot get to those programs or access those, uh, opportunities. Forget about it. You know? It’s, it’s, uh, it’s meaningful.
It’s, it’s, it’s futile to try to have something that, you know, people cannot access. So it seems that in your community, the different regions, they, they have that understanding. It’s not, you know, that you have to make a big effort to try to put it in front of their faces, you know, like, “Hey,” you know. Like in some other communities, it’s like, you know, you know, “Public transit is very important. This is what we’re doing.” A-and then sometimes, like, it’s hard for them to see it. It seems that in your community, uh, the folks that you partner with, they have that understanding. They understand how your service is, is moving the communities, that backbone that is powering everything else that I have, that is happening for the economical activity, but also to all the, you know, human services, uh, and options that, that it’s providing to the members of the community. Um, so, you know, uh, I, I wanna ask you, uh, because not every, um, you know, transit agency or, you know-
A community has within their community like pueblos and tribes. Like what’s different about, you know, tribal communities and, and coordinating services or, you know, like, uh, just coordinating with tribal communities? Is there anything particular? I’ve, I’ve never had that experience, so I don’t know if there’s anything that you could, uh, share with us that would be new for, for folks without that experience. Yeah, sure. I think the first thing that I, I learned very quickly is that, you know, these tribal pueblos and tribal nations, you know, th- this is their sovereign land.
You know, we’re serving essentially, you know, their sovereignty, you know, and that’s very important to them, you know? And so, you know, th- there’ll be times where, uh, the tribes will close their pueblos, you know, for, um, for, uh, religious ceremonies, right? Or certain, uh, or certain festivals, and they’re closed to the public.
A lot of times we get not a lot of, uh, advance notice of these things. They just happen, but when they happen, we have to respect it. You know, it’s, we, we are traversing on their native land. It’s not ours, you know? And so, you know, b- having that understanding and having that flexibility, you know, that the, the, the tribal pueblos get to, get to call the shots on what happens, you know, in their jurisdictions, you know, stronger, in a much stronger sense than a typical municipality would or a county, right? And so, you know, you have to come in very early on understanding that you need to respect that, and there’s, there’s a different level of respect you have to pay, you know, when having conversations, even when it comes to, you know, how bus shelters are sited, you know, um, in the pueblo, you know, or on the tribal, uh, or in the tribal nation, right? Th- these are decisions that they get to make, you know, on their tribal lands, and we’re facilitating, you know, the needs of the, of, of each individual tribe. And so to me, that’s been the biggest takeaway. And, and the other one would be, in the case of ours where we have many tribal pueblos, is that, um, th- you cannot assume that all the tribal pueblos speak with one unified voice. They’re all unique. They have their unique perspectives, their unique cultural elements, their unique, you know, unique politics, elections, uh, you know, um, celebrations.
And so, you know, you have to really make sure that when we’re, when you’re collaborating with them, to give them that respect that each one is unique and that, that they don’t speak all together as, as one monolith. So when you think about the future, Nick, what does the next five to 10 years look like with you in that executive director seat?
Where is Blue Bus going? Yeah. Well, I’ll, I’ll be v- very excited to, uh, to get that rural rapid transit, um, off the ground, you know? Um, but I think the biggest thing I would like to do is focus on making this service a seven-day-a-week service. Uh, right now, we predominantly operate, uh, weekdays only, and there’s almost no service on the weekends, you know, with some few exceptions. Um, and there’s very little, if not any, service on holidays.
Um, but as I kinda mentioned, you know, life still has to happen during those times. People still need to go to dialysis. People still need to see their families. They still need to access employment.
And so, um, that’s one of the things I’d really like to change, and, uh, in the future, be able to have a transit network that’s providing services for folks seven day a week. You know, that might sound like a given for most urban transit agencies, but for here, it would be huge, and so impactful, and a v- very large shift, um, in how we do operations here, as well as what it would take financially to be able to, uh, to make that shift of having seven-day-a-week, uh, reliable service. Excellent. Well, I mean, I think that’s a, a wonderful goal, and, mm, absolutely, you’re right. The, people don’t just stop needing to go to places, uh, especially if it’s dialysis or some critical care, um, just because it’s the weekend, right? Tho- those things take place seven days a week. Um, so, you know, meeting the community where they are at, I think is the, is a good approach and a good goal. Uh, Nick, as we start to wind down on our conversation here on Stop Requested, uh, we have a couple recurring segments.
One is key takeaways, so I’ve been taking some notes as we’ve been talking, and, uh, I’ve got a few. You tell me if I got any of them wrong or if you would say them differently, but this is what I wrote down.
Uh, invest in your people. Your, the, the workforce is your most important resource at the organization. You have to be surrounded by the right people, people who care, um, you know, people who give 100%.
Uh, build the workforce for the next 20 years, so you, you’ve gotta think about the long term. Uh, be in tune with your community’s perspectives, especially in your case, considering how diverse the, the community is and the different backgrounds, the different religious practices. You’ve gotta respect that.
Um, a- and this is, this is one that, that really sticks with me, is that the innovation, uh, that w- we, that Christian and I know, for example, you know, we, we think about the New York Cities and Chicagos and LA Metros, but innovation can happen at any level, even in a rural setting like your own. And then finally, in a rural setting, i- it’s a needs-based service. Th- this is a service for people who cannot survive without having this, this form of mobility.
Those are my key takeaways. Would you say anything differently, or did I get close enough? No, I think, I, I think, I think you got it, you got it spot on, you know? And it’s really, you know, for, for me, um, it’s, you know, the community impact over total ridership is what matters the most for communities in, in the rural parts of the country. You know, you’re not gonna see these stellar ridership numbers and these stellar, uh, passenger efficiency metrics, but when you talk to someone one on one and you find out, okay, they might be one of your only, maybe you have 15 riders a day on that route, but-
You know, you talk to them and you find out how grateful they are that it exists so that they can get their fresh food for the week, you know, or they can get prescription medication, and they couldn’t get it without your service. You know, so that’s, it’s really meaningful and really, really hit me hard ’cause, you know, coming from that transit data background early on, you know, it was all about the numbers. It was all about the efficiency metrics, you know.
We were trying to keep an average of 40 passengers per hour system wide, you know, and then here I, I have routes that do, uh, you know, less than two passengers per hour, you know. And so, you know, in most service contexts, that would be a, uh, you know, not a good thing. But in the, uh, in a rural context where you’re really trying to provide, you know, critical coverage for folks who need it the most, you know, it’s extremely meaningful to be able to still have those service. You know, and it, it feels so, it feels so good when you’re part of leading, uh, that organization that is, that is doing those things that are, is so important to people’s lives, right? Like, you go back home, you put your, you know, your head on your pillow, and you feel so good about what you did because you, you are doing essential, you know, very important work for, for the communities.
So, you know, thank you, uh, Nick, for, for doing that. And, you know, we’re winding down to the end of our show, but, you know, uh, commendable work and, and really appreciate, uh, your insights. Another recurring segment that we have at Stop
Requested, uh, we call it our, our quick fire segment, where we ask you kinda, like, short questions, and we’re expecting, like, short, you know, first thing in mind answers. Are you ready for it? I’m ready for it.
Excellent. So your favorite Blue Bus route or service? Uh, it’s a route called the Turquoise Trail that goes from, um, Santa Fe down to a small artist village called Madrid.
Uh, and it’s one of the coolest services, great views, and then great brews at the end. What? Okay. Now you’re inviting me for a site visit there. Absolutely.
One word to describe the future of transit in North Central New Mexico. Uh, I’m gonna use the word interwoven. Oh, wow. Okay. Interwoven in all the community, different backgrounds, and everybody’s interconnected, and, and your system is gonna continue providing that connection, that bridge between everybody in the community.
I love that. Coffee or tea before a major board meeting? Uh, neither. I do Celsius. Celsius. You know, Celsius, I love Celsius. The, the thing is, you know, you have to make sure you’re not drinking anything else. If you have coffee- …
and Celsius and you start getting, you start twitching. But man- Yep … Celsius gets you, uh, sharp. Well, listen. Listen, you guys have r- you guys have some roots in Palm Beach County. Celsius was started in Boca Raton, so.
Really? Oh, wow. Yeah. That’s new. Good to know. I was drinking Celsius in high school when it was still sold in glass blue bottles, only locally in Palm Beach County. Oh, wow. Well, I didn’t know. You see, I live, you know, in Palm Beach County and work out of Boca Raton, and I didn’t know that fact.
There you go. Oh. Yeah. Read the back of a Celsius bottle. It still says Boca Raton, Florida on the back of it. Okay. Now I’m gonna do that. The first thing I’m gonna do once I- … I get to put my hands on the next Celsius.
Nick, this has been a phenomenal, uh, conversation again. You know, uh, first, I admire your transit career. You know, you’ve, you’ve taken the leap. You’ve, you know, gone in different communities, in every one of them you left your mark and, you know, helped driving those communities forward. So again,
I cannot thank you enough for joining us, for sharing your journey and your experience with our, uh, audience, uh, at Stop Requested. So we, you know, we appreciate your, your insight today.
Uh, last thing I wanna ask you, if people want to get in touch with you, how can they reach you? Or if they wanna learn more about, like, you know, uh, rural rapid transit and some of these great things that you guys are championing at your agency, how can they do so? Yeah. A- absolutely. I am available on, uh, on LinkedIn as, uh, Nicholas
A. Sofel. Um, I’m also on our website at, uh, ncrtd.gorg, .org, excuse me. Um, and my email address is nsofel, nsofel@ncrtd.org.
Excellent. Nick, thank you for your time today. And, uh, to our listeners, uh, thank you for joining us on this episode. Uh, please join us back next Monday for a new episode of Stop Requested.