00:00 Stop Requested
00:01 Levi McCollum: Welcome to Stop Requested, the podcast where we discuss everything transit.
00:05 Levi McCollum: I’m your co host Levi McCollum, director of operations at ETA.
00:10 Christian Londono: And I’m your co host Christian Londono, Senior Customer Success Manager at ETA.
00:20 Levi McCollum: Hey Christian, how are you doing?
00:22 Christian Londono: Doing good, Levi. How about you?
00:25 Levi McCollum: Yeah man, I’m doing very well.
00:27 Levi McCollum: I am again really excited to talk about our Stop Requested episode today.
00:33 Levi McCollum: This is going to be a good one.
00:35 Levi McCollum: It’s one that’s very close to me and I know it’s pretty close to you as well.
00:40 Levi McCollum: Bus Stop Amenities I think this is going to be a fun conversation because we have a lot of experience
00:45 Levi McCollum: in it and it is also a really important part of the customer experience.
00:53 Levi McCollum: So do you have any initial thoughts about bus stop amenities before we get into the nitty gritty?
00:59 Christian Londono: Yeah, bus stop amenities is very important and like you said, we both as transit planners and many of our
01:08 Christian Londono: listeners are transit planners as well.
01:10 Christian Londono: So I would imagine also for them it’s being part of their work life as a transit planner, being able
01:21 Christian Londono: to know, plan for amenities, manage the different amenities that they have in in their system.
01:29 Christian Londono: And for them, just as for ourselves, we can see the importance as part of the writers experience since it’s
01:38 Christian Londono: one of the first pieces of infrastructure that writers interact with and something just to to get this started in
01:47 Christian Londono: in why this is so important, I wanted to share some details about a study that I read about maybe
01:56 Christian Londono: two, three years ago. And my apologies because I don’t recollect exactly who completed the study, but I would tell
02:04 Christian Londono: you what it said and how relevant this to this conversation.
02:08 Christian Londono: And this study was about the perception of how long you waited for for bus service at a bus stop
02:21 Christian Londono: in correlation with amenities that were provided.
02:25 Christian Londono: And to make the long story short, at bus stops where there were no amenities whatsoever, just a pole in
02:32 Christian Londono: the ground and people were standing waiting for the bus, when people were asked how long they thought they waited
02:40 Christian Londono: for the bus, the times the people were stating were about twice and even more than twice as much as
02:48 Christian Londono: the actual time they were waiting there because there were people watching them and timing them.
02:52 Christian Londono: And then after they got in the bus they kind of like followed them on the bus and asked them
02:56 Christian Londono: how long do you think you waited for this bus? So at stops where there was some amenities, especially sitting
03:03 Christian Londono: where people were waiting, sitting, they perceived waiting time was closer to the actual time.
03:13 Christian Londono: And then the bus stops that were full complement of many of these sheltered seating, maybe with displays and so
03:24 Christian Londono: on with informational displays, people were asked how long they thought they were waiting.
03:30 Christian Londono: And some of them were actually given times that were slightly less than the actual time.
03:35 Christian Londono: So that’s kind of like how wanna open up this conversation is keeping in mind how important it is for
03:42 Christian Londono: people to feel comfortable when they’re waiting for the transit service and role that amenities take in making that perception
03:53 Christian Londono: to be closer to the actual time.
03:56 Christian Londono: So Levi, let’s start with the basics.
03:58 Christian Londono: What are bus stop amenities and how do you define them? And what are some that you can think about
04:05 Christian Londono: that are very common to see out there?
04:09 Levi McCollum: Yeah, I think a fairly simple description of a bus stop amenity would be an additional piece of equipment or
04:20 Levi McCollum: hardware, some physical part of the bus stop that’s more than just a pole and a sign.
04:28 Levi McCollum: Right. So a couple examples that come to mind would be the obvious ones, right? Like a shelter or maybe
04:34 Levi McCollum: it’s seating, you know, could be a bench or like the semi seat style.
04:40 Levi McCollum: You could be looking at real time displays.
04:43 Levi McCollum: Bicycle storage racks of course are common.
04:46 Levi McCollum: Trash bins, trash cans, some sort of lighting.
04:52 Levi McCollum: In some cases too, there are some more aesthetic type improvements that are done to a particular bus stop, like
05:02 Levi McCollum: art or some landscaping perhaps. So it can include a lot.
05:08 Unknown: Right.
05:09 Levi McCollum: It’s a very big umbrella. But I think it’s more than just the pole and the sign.
05:14 Levi McCollum: Once you get beyond that, then you say, okay, these are amenities, these are additions to the bus stop to
05:20 Levi McCollum: make it a little bit more attractive, to make it a little more comfortable and hopefully reduce that perceived waiting
05:27 Levi McCollum: time.
05:27 Unknown: Right.
05:28 Levi McCollum: Because it does play a role in the passenger psyche for sure.
05:33 Christian Londono: Yeah. And the thing is, you know, when you first look at this, and maybe for folks that are not
05:39 Christian Londono: transit planners or even for the riders and you know, the question in their mind might be like, well, how
05:47 Christian Londono: come you don’t have everything everywhere? You know, I, I think that I would appreciate having a bus shelter at
05:55 Christian Londono: all the stops where I go.
05:56 Christian Londono: So why don’t you have a bus shelter at every stop where you, where you provide service, where you stop?
06:03 Christian Londono: I want to be protected from the elements and I want to be waiting for the bus, you know, sitting.
06:09 Christian Londono: I don’t want to be standing.
06:10 Christian Londono: I mean standing. And also under the elements, under the rain, under the sun, it’s.
06:15 Christian Londono: It could be, you know, a torture.
06:19 Christian Londono: So, you know, the question is, how do you go about deciding where the amenities go and how much of
06:30 Christian Londono: each type do you install? So what can you tell me, Levi, kind of like with that transit planner cap
06:41 Christian Londono: on about prioritizing amenities and why Today, not every single stop has every single amenity there is to offer.
06:52 Levi McCollum: Yeah, well, I think there are a couple of different questions that are embedded there.
06:56 Levi McCollum: I would start with one. The cost of adding every single amenity at every single bus stop.
07:05 Levi McCollum: That can get pretty costly. Of course, you know, you’re talking about shelters that are anywhere between, you know, I
07:11 Levi McCollum: don’t know with the upcoming tariffs, but you know, we’re talking about 15,000, 20,000, you know, perhaps more depending on
07:20 Levi McCollum: if it’s a custom made or custom designed shelter.
07:23 Levi McCollum: But you know, they’re not cheap and you’re talking about digital displays.
07:29 Levi McCollum: Of course, the bicycle storage racks are, you know, some, you know, a couple thousand or a thousand depending on
07:36 Levi McCollum: the size. So that is the, probably the largest limitation.
07:42 Unknown: Right.
07:42 Levi McCollum: If you have 3,000 bus stops in your network like Palm Trend does, then that can.
07:48 Levi McCollum: I’m sorry, how many is Palm Trend have.
07:50 Levi McCollum: I don’t quite remember now.
07:52 Christian Londono: It’s close to that. It’s close.
07:54 Christian Londono: I think they were like at 2900 because of consolidation and so on, but that’s very close.
08:00 Levi McCollum: Okay. Yeah. I couldn’t remember if I got Li Tran or if I got Palm Tre when I recalled that
08:07 Levi McCollum: 3,000 number, but it’s good that I got the right one.
08:12 Levi McCollum: So, you know, when you’re talking about that many thousands of bus stops, it can really add up.
08:20 Levi McCollum: I think taking the other part of your question regarding how do you decide the amenities and, you know, which
08:27 Levi McCollum: amenities to place and where? This, this sort of basic geographical question for a transit planner, it largely depends on
08:36 Levi McCollum: demand. You know, I think, at least in my experience, the sort of algorithm that I would run through is,
08:43 Levi McCollum: you know, what’s the, what’s the boarding, what’s the alighting?
08:45 Unknown: Right.
08:46 Levi McCollum: Because you have to tease those apart.
08:47 Levi McCollum: You don’t want to look at it as total activity because the amenities that you may place at a bus
08:54 Levi McCollum: stop would differ depending on the boarding demand or the alighting demand.
09:00 Levi McCollum: For example, just to make that concrete, if I have a bunch of people that are boarding at this stop,
09:05 Levi McCollum: then I might have seating.
09:07 Unknown: Right.
09:07 Levi McCollum: If a bunch of people are alighting at this stop, I might have a trash can over the seating.
09:12 Unknown: Right.
09:12 Levi McCollum: Or I might have both.
09:13 Unknown: Right.
09:13 Levi McCollum: A trash can and, and the seating.
09:17 Levi McCollum: But, you know, if it’s just alighting, let’s just say we heavily waited on lighting.
09:21 Levi McCollum: Then, you know, maybe there’s, there’s not any, you know, passenger waiting type amenity at all.
09:30 Unknown: Right.
09:30 Levi McCollum: If it.
09:31 Christian Londono: Right.
09:32 Levi McCollum: You know, this is somewhat rare, but let’s just say it’s outside of a big, you know, shopping center perhaps,
09:39 Levi McCollum: and people are only getting off at that bus stop, then you really wouldn’t want to shelter there.
09:44 Levi McCollum: So you do have to look at the boarding and alighting and kind of go from there.
09:50 Levi McCollum: You know, a lot of it depends on right of way, what’s available.
09:53 Levi McCollum: Are there sidewalks that are going to connect? Do you have drainage or some water retention nearby? Some of these
10:01 Levi McCollum: projects can turn into a drainage project, more than just a bus stop amenities project.
10:07 Levi McCollum: So there are lots of things to consider, and I’m sure there are more that I’m missing that you’re going
10:12 Levi McCollum: to fill in the gaps here, but those are the few that come to my mind.
10:16 Christian Londono: Yeah, I think that the bigger one there and one that you start with is, you know, looking at the
10:24 Christian Londono: demand, looking at, you know, how people are using the stops, and we’re talking about prioritization.
10:31 Christian Londono: Right. Like it’s, you know, you, you explained it.
10:36 Christian Londono: It’s not financial, financially feasible to just buy all the amenities for every single stop.
10:43 Christian Londono: A. Not just. I’m sorry.
10:47 Levi McCollum: I wish.
10:48 Christian Londono: Yeah, I wish.
10:48 Levi McCollum: I wish agencies had that type of money to be able to.
10:53 Christian Londono: Yes. No, it’s. But also it’s that, you know, cost effective.
10:58 Christian Londono: Right. Like, you’re looking at the utilization because if you were to even have the money and put them everywhere,
11:04 Christian Londono: but they’re being underutilized, like, the people are not really using them because, you know, some stops kind of like
11:13 Christian Londono: with the overall service are coverage and access more than ridership.
11:21 Unknown: Right.
11:21 Christian Londono: Like, there’s not a lot of people that use them, but there are some people that use them.
11:25 Christian Londono: And then, you know, you’re looking at bus stop spacing.
11:28 Christian Londono: So it makes sense to have a bus stop in a given location.
11:31 Christian Londono: And maybe it’s not, you know, there’s not a lot of activity there.
11:34 Christian Londono: So would you put all these amenities that are not being used and spend all this money and then on
11:40 Christian Londono: top of that, maintain it? You know, some.
11:44 Christian Londono: Some bus stops have landscaping around it, and then part of the maintenance of the stop is actually completing some
11:50 Christian Londono: landscaping work to make sure the trees or bushes or things like that are not overgrowing or maybe covering the
11:57 Christian Londono: bus stop sign. So it would not make sense to put infrastructure in places with low utilization.
12:04 Christian Londono: So I agree. I mean, one of the first stop places to start is with the demand in terms of
12:12 Christian Londono: how it’s being used. And also take a look at the, you know, the weather.
12:17 Unknown: Right.
12:18 Christian Londono: Like, there’s a, you know, shelters that you installed in certain locations.
12:24 Christian Londono: And then you know, the design when it comes, how you’re going to build it and what you’re going to
12:29 Christian Londono: put in there. A lot of it has to do with the weather.
12:33 Christian Londono: And then you know what, infrastructure is going to be a better experience for people.
12:38 Christian Londono: So I know in places that are very cold, you know, you try to do something that is more enclosed,
12:43 Christian Londono: that not a lot of wind is going to get in, so people can, you know, stay warmer as they’re
12:47 Christian Londono: waiting. And in contrast, in places that are very hot, you have it very open.
12:54 Christian Londono: And there is, you know, sometimes there’s like puncher holes on the panels and so on, so more air can
13:00 Christian Londono: circulate and then keep people a little cooler.
13:04 Christian Londono: So definitely the demand. And also take a look at the other piece that you said is right away.
13:11 Christian Londono: And that’s one thing, you know, I remember when talking with passengers and people sometimes submitting requests because another way
13:22 Christian Londono: of prioritizing these amenities is looking at the requests.
13:25 Christian Londono: You have people that call customer service and they make a recommendation.
13:30 Christian Londono: And maybe you bunch, I hope once you know where one stop you have this, all these bunch of, you
13:37 Christian Londono: know, suggestions with different people have said, we won’t see the.
13:40 Christian Londono: We want sitting, we want a bench.
13:41 Christian Londono: We want a bench. Then, you know, when it comes to prioritizing amenities, I would do my best to deliver
13:46 Christian Londono: a bench where people are asking for one, but the other piece is the right away.
13:51 Christian Londono: And you mentioned that. And that’s a big reality for transit planners around the country because people might want the
13:59 Christian Londono: shelter and there might be a good level of utilization.
14:03 Christian Londono: But if there is no physical right away, like, you know, the a, you know, private properties all the way
14:10 Christian Londono: to the sidewalk and, you know, you’re looking at a very narrow sidewalk and there’s just no physical space to
14:17 Christian Londono: put, you know, amenities while keeping it ADA compliant and not blocking the sidewalk for wheelchairs and so on.
14:25 Christian Londono: It just becomes very difficult and you have to get kind of creative in terms of overcoming that.
14:31 Christian Londono: But those are some of the things that come in mind when it comes to prioritizing amenities.
14:38 Christian Londono: Let me ask you a question, Levi.
14:40 Christian Londono: Can you think. Yeah, and I have some ideas, but I want to hear from you.
14:44 Christian Londono: How do you circumvent a. Or some ideas to circumvent right away constrained bus stops where you might want to
14:53 Christian Londono: put a shelter. What comes to your mind?
14:56 Levi McCollum: Yeah, you know, this one is a tough one because it is much more cumbersome to be able to make
15:01 Levi McCollum: a bus stop that you, you know, Fits those ADA compliant thresholds.
15:07 Levi McCollum: But the big one is, you know, you got to get an easement.
15:10 Levi McCollum: You have to talk to property owners.
15:12 Levi McCollum: Perhaps it’s moving the bus stop altogether to an area that has a little bit more right of way.
15:18 Levi McCollum: You know, you really have to work with your departments of transportation to be able to see where your rights
15:23 Levi McCollum: of way line are. And you know, just having a sense of what the bus, bus stop looks like on
15:30 Levi McCollum: the ground. I can think of several examples in which, you know, maybe we had a bus stop that was
15:35 Levi McCollum: on, on the near side and, and we had a lot of utilization near side of an intersection.
15:41 Levi McCollum: That is we, we had a lot of utilization at the bus stop and we thought, well, you know, there
15:46 Levi McCollum: we’re getting these requests and clearly people are using the bus stop.
15:49 Levi McCollum: Can we move it far side?
15:51 Unknown: Right?
15:51 Levi McCollum: Far side of the, the intersection has some advantages over the near side.
15:56 Levi McCollum: You know, both have their pros and cons, but in most cases, I think, you know, transit planners would say
16:02 Levi McCollum: that the, the far side of the intersection is a, is a better place generally.
16:08 Levi McCollum: And you know, we. Would we take a look at the, the far side.
16:12 Levi McCollum: Hey, is there more right of way over here? Can we put it into the beginning of a right turn
16:16 Levi McCollum: lane? And you know, I know that can be hit or miss with some agencies.
16:20 Levi McCollum: Some agencies do that, some agencies don’t.
16:24 Levi McCollum: But you really have to look at the bus stop at a very individual level.
16:29 Levi McCollum: And if you kind of zoom out and try to look at a cluster of bus stops for bus stop
16:34 Levi McCollum: spacing, you know, that’s a good thing, right? You need to make sure that your bus stops are not too
16:40 Levi McCollum: closely spaced to one another. But it does take planning happening at that individual bus stop level.
16:49 Levi McCollum: So you really need to be able to move throughout each of those contexts to plan well.
16:56 Levi McCollum: So I think I just touched on your question, hopefully answered it.
16:59 Levi McCollum: But I think easements, in short.
17:02 Christian Londono: Yeah, and that’s exactly what I was going to say also is Eastman, and you know, something that you just
17:08 Christian Londono: said, it’s really important as well, which is when you are addressing bus stop amenities for your system and your
17:19 Christian Londono: bus stops, you don’t, do you, you have to do it one by one.
17:24 Christian Londono: Like every stop is its own project.
17:27 Christian Londono: And a lot of times when you’re working with an engineering team, you know, you have to design one bus
17:34 Christian Londono: stop, it’s one bus stop. And, and, and you could have a lot that are very similar, especially if they’re
17:40 Christian Londono: in the same, along the same road, they tend to have A very similar right away and, and when you,
17:46 Christian Londono: you know, finish designing a stop and then you go to the other one, they might be very similar, but
17:50 Christian Londono: also they could be very different because of what you just said is, you know, the right of way.
17:54 Christian Londono: But also when it comes to the easement, is being able to work with the easements and then the different
18:00 Christian Londono: stakeholders. So if you have some stops where you want to add amenities, you know, you want to make sure
18:07 Christian Londono: it’s ADA compliant, so you have that boarding lighting pad for ada and then hopefully you have, you’re going to
18:13 Christian Londono: put a shelter, which it takes a whole bunch of space when you actually look into it and look at
18:20 Christian Londono: all the dimensions even for a small shelter.
18:24 Christian Londono: So you have to work with those partners, those jurisdictions.
18:27 Christian Londono: It could be the local municipality maybe, you know, if you work in a county agency, you’re working with that
18:35 Christian Londono: specific city where you have the bus stop and then they’re planning teams and a lot of times they can
18:41 Christian Londono: help you, they can provide help talking with a private property owners and then suggesting easements.
18:47 Christian Londono: And then there’s benefits for those private property owners when it comes to the Eastmans, because transit is bringing activity
18:56 Christian Londono: to their property. So sometimes if it’s residential, it could be, you know, access for people to live there to
19:04 Christian Londono: public transit as a way to commute.
19:07 Christian Londono: If it’s a private business, it could be bringing business, it could be bringing money.
19:12 Christian Londono: You know, if there’s a Walmart, if there’s, you know, one of those stores, they, and you know, you’re transporting
19:18 Christian Londono: people that are going there to spend money, that’s a good way of having a conversation.
19:23 Christian Londono: So it could take time, just working one stop and working one deal and one easement, it could take some
19:30 Christian Londono: time to be able to get it up and running.
19:33 Christian Londono: But you know, again, we’re talking about prioritization.
19:37 Christian Londono: So if you have a stop that is really right now a pain point for your riders because there’s a
19:42 Christian Londono: bunch of people waiting there, maybe the frequency of your bus, which is another point of consideration for prioritization, which
19:51 Christian Londono: is the headway, if it’s 30 minutes, 45 minutes headway.
19:55 Christian Londono: So people usually wait for a good amount of time and there’s no amenity whatsoever, that becomes an important project
20:03 Christian Londono: and working with those jurisdictions to try to make something happen for your riders.
20:08 Christian Londono: Yeah, it’s definitely something that will help.
20:13 Christian Londono: So breaking it into steps, you know, planning for amenities and I think one of the things that we said
20:19 Christian Londono: is you start with that needs assessment.
20:24 Christian Londono: So where do we need in what type of amenity is it, you know, trash can, Is it a shelter,
20:30 Christian Londono: is it a bench, Is it, you know, what type of amenity? And then the next step we said, and
20:37 Christian Londono: even for this situation where you might have, might not have to right away, is collaborating with urban planners from
20:44 Christian Londono: different jurisdictions and different local governments.
20:48 Christian Londono: So they’re involved. Right. And I think that this should be something that we always practice, which is getting those
20:57 Christian Londono: stakeholders for even those individual locations involved.
21:00 Christian Londono: So even if it’s a city or if it’s a business, you know, kind of like let them know that
21:05 Christian Londono: that is happening. And then going back to the third one, and I think that’s.
21:10 Christian Londono: That was your answer of to why we don’t have amenities everywhere, which is the budget, you know, how much
21:18 Christian Londono: money do we have and where is it coming from? And I would add another one is, is which contracts
21:23 Christian Londono: do we have in place? So what contractual instruments do we have ready to start buying shelters and, and actually
21:30 Christian Londono: having somebody install them and all these things? So that’s some of the steps that I can think of when
21:36 Christian Londono: you break it down into steps.
21:38 Christian Londono: Anything else do you want to add to that, Levi?
21:42 Levi McCollum: I think the only thing that I would add there is if you can get something in your land development
21:50 Levi McCollum: code about building bus stop amenities by those private property owners whenever they’re doing any sort of work on that
22:01 Levi McCollum: site, on that parcel of land.
22:04 Levi McCollum: You know, maybe you can’t get a shelter every single time, but maybe you can at least get an ADA
22:09 Levi McCollum: pad out there or a larger, you know, landing pad for the front and the rear doors.
22:15 Levi McCollum: You know, that that could be one area that you could work to improve your, you know, your communication with
22:23 Levi McCollum: the, you know, improve your communication with the planners in your community.
22:28 Levi McCollum: I think that that’s worked for Palmtran and Litran when I both worked in each of those agencies.
22:36 Levi McCollum: And I know it’s a common practice here in Florida to be able to get the private developers to pay
22:44 Levi McCollum: for some of those amenities and those improvements to the bus stop because potentially the folks that are going to
22:52 Levi McCollum: those establishments are going to be using the bus stop.
22:55 Levi McCollum: So that’s the other thing that I wanted to throw in there.
22:59 Christian Londono: Yeah, you actually, that’s a really good one.
23:02 Christian Londono: I think that working with those jurisdictions and developers, and that’s a condition of approval for their permit when they’re
23:10 Christian Londono: going through their permitting process to, you know, build, you know, whatever they’re building a shopping plaza or, you know,
23:18 Christian Londono: residential area is, you know, working with them is, you know, you can, as a transit system and working with
23:26 Christian Londono: those different jurisdictions, put as a condition of approval to build a bus stop or provide an easement for a
23:34 Christian Londono: bus stop. So even if there’s no bus stop that they’re developing for the transit agency, they’re giving an easement
23:40 Christian Londono: so in the future it can be built.
23:41 Christian Londono: So sometimes you request those not where you currently have service, but where you could potentially have service in the
23:47 Christian Londono: future. But also if you have service and you have a popular route there and there’s good ridership activity, and
24:00 Christian Londono: in the past you were not able to provide amenities, then that’s a good instrument to kind of request.
24:07 Christian Londono: Put as a condition of approval, okay, this development is going to be approved, but you have to, as a
24:12 Christian Londono: developer, provide these type of amenities at this location.
24:19 Christian Londono: So that’s definitely a great way to get some amenities out there and get.
24:23 Christian Londono: And wins. Now, the last thing I’m going to add to that, and I almost miss on mentioning this or
24:29 Christian Londono: the last couple of things. One is planning for who’s going to maintain it, because what happens a lot of
24:37 Christian Londono: the times is that some developers put bus shelters or bus stop infrastructure themselves.
24:45 Christian Londono: Some municipalities also do their own, you know, they go out and put some amenities for the city, and sometimes
24:52 Christian Londono: they, they look at where you have a bus stop and they go and put something in there or they
24:56 Christian Londono: even places. Yeah. Or, or sometimes in places where you don’t have a bus stop.
25:03 Christian Londono: And then now you have people congregating or waiting for the service under this shelter or what looks to be
25:10 Christian Londono: a bus stop. There’s no bus stop sign.
25:13 Christian Londono: But.
25:13 Levi McCollum: Right.
25:14 Christian Londono: Because there is bus stop infrastructure, then they feel that, you know, they, they, they, they perceive it as a,
25:21 Christian Londono: you know, transit stop. And then that creates issues because of course the bus is going to be driving by
25:27 Christian Londono: and not stopping because it’s not official bus stop for the system.
25:30 Christian Londono: So being, you know, able to coordinate with those jurisdictions and understand who is responsible for the maintenance is critical.
25:38 Christian Londono: Because it’s not just about putting this infrastructure up, is who is going to maintain it.
25:44 Christian Londono: What if somebody, you know, runs it over and there’s shattered glass or there’s, you know, trash cans are over,
25:52 Christian Londono: you know, flowing, who is going to maintain it? And the expectation automatically is, well, the transit agency.
26:00 Christian Londono: But if you ask the transit agency didn’t request those amenities or didn’t even build them, then why are you
26:07 Christian Londono: responsible? So, so that coordination and understanding who is going to be maintaining what and working with those municipalities and
26:14 Christian Londono: different stakeholders is another planning a step that I think is important to Keep in mind and to have it
26:24 Christian Londono: clear, because sometimes it could be where some municipalities maintain their own bus stop amenities, they have their team, you
26:32 Christian Londono: know, public works go out, you know, maybe twice or three times a week and cleaning the trash cans and
26:39 Christian Londono: maybe, you know, once a month or once a quarter, they kind of like power wash to stop and all
26:45 Christian Londono: that. So that’s awesome. But that has to be kind of like in paper so you don’t get those complaints.
26:51 Christian Londono: And people, you know, being upset about a bus stop that you didn’t sign up to maintain and you would
26:58 Christian Londono: not design the way it was designed.
26:59 Christian Londono: But you’re the transit agency, you get kind of like you by default become responsible for it.
27:08 Christian Londono: The other one that I was going to throw in here, and this is, I’ll pass it back to you,
27:13 Christian Londono: but is the flexibility in design in your contracts.
27:21 Christian Londono: So sometimes if you have a contract for bus shelters and it’s one size and one vendor, one design, I
27:31 Christian Londono: doubt that one size, one design is going to be able to address all your different bus stops and the
27:39 Christian Londono: different needs. So one recommendation I will give transit planners today and anybody that is listening, if you’re working on
27:47 Christian Londono: bust up amenities, if you’re going out for a contract, make sure that you, you have flexibility, that you have
27:53 Christian Londono: different sizes, that you have different options to choose from.
27:57 Christian Londono: So it’s going to match the different scenarios that you will be more likely to find in your transit system.
28:04 Christian Londono: That way you can actually make those amenities happen versus being constricted by one design, one contract that is not
28:13 Christian Londono: addressing all your needs.
28:17 Levi McCollum: Yeah, 100%. I mean, you do have to have that flexibility in design.
28:23 Levi McCollum: Is it going to be a slim or a narrow shelter versus a larger, maybe a little more spacious shelter?
28:30 Levi McCollum: What type of wayside signage are you going to have? Is it something that needs to be up high for
28:36 Levi McCollum: vandalism purposes? Can you have it down low so it’s more legible? Yeah.
28:41 Levi McCollum: Lot to consider there for sure.
28:45 Christian Londono: Yeah. That, that you just said about vandalism, that’s a big one too.
28:49 Christian Londono: You know, sometimes glass panels, like there’s some shelters that are very nice looking.
28:55 Christian Londono: You know, the design is, is, is beautiful.
28:57 Christian Londono: But if they’re in an area they’re, they’re prone to vandalism, then it’s going to be thousands of dollars in
29:06 Christian Londono: repairs and all that. And then at that point for that shelter, you need something that is kind of like,
29:14 Christian Londono: you know, aluminum frames or, you know, more vandal resistant.
29:18 Christian Londono: And maybe they coating, they have a, there’s a coating that I know that exists today to anti graffiti.
29:25 Christian Londono: So if somebody was to spray graffiti on it, I think it’s easy to clean is not that it prevents
29:30 Christian Londono: the graffiti to be done, but it’s kind of like washable.
29:33 Christian Londono: It makes in a way that, that you’re going to be able to get rid of it.
29:37 Christian Londono: So things like that is important to consider when you’re going about that.
29:42 Christian Londono: And you know, when we talk about bust of amenities and we just talk about how to plan for them
29:48 Christian Londono: and describe some of the amenities, but why are we doing bust of amenities and why is it important? And
29:54 Christian Londono: it ties back as we said at the beginning, is the writer’s experience.
29:59 Christian Londono: And there’s a way Levi and I want you to say that you describe bus stops.
30:03 Christian Londono: So talk to me, how do you describe the bus stops and why is it important, you know that we
30:08 Christian Londono: talk about enhancing the bus stop amenities for the riders experience?
30:15 Levi McCollum: Yeah, I mean it really boils down to the customer experience.
30:20 Levi McCollum: I think this is often overlooked and we focus, you know, perhaps unnecessarily on some of the the other ancillary
30:33 Levi McCollum: ideas around public transportation and not enough on the bus stop.
30:40 Levi McCollum: It does get overlooked and in fact I’m not sure if this is still out there, but there was a
30:47 Levi McCollum: blog that talked about the sorry bus stops in the United States or in North America.
30:55 Levi McCollum: And I think that just because we thought hey, we could go put up some bus stops and people requested
31:01 Levi McCollum: them and let’s just put up poll up and assign maybe someone handmade a bench and they put it at
31:09 Levi McCollum: the bus stop and it ends up on one of these blogs, these ugliest bus stops or sorry, it’s bus
31:14 Levi McCollum: stops list. It doesn’t look great.
31:19 Levi McCollum: It’s not a good reflection of the agency.
31:22 Levi McCollum: And the bus stop is the gateway to the system.
31:24 Levi McCollum: It is the way that you access the service.
31:28 Levi McCollum: You know, even if the service is very infrequent, you know, an hour headway.
31:34 Levi McCollum: I think as you mentioned earlier, the bus stop amenities become ever more important.
31:39 Levi McCollum: As your frequency increases, your amenities become less important.
31:43 Unknown: Right.
31:43 Levi McCollum: Because you spend less time waiting.
31:46 Levi McCollum: So these are all things to consider.
31:49 Levi McCollum: But in the end it comes down to your folks are accessing your system at this particular point.
31:56 Levi McCollum: That point is a reflection of you.
31:58 Levi McCollum: Just like the bus operator is a reflection of the transit agency.
32:02 Levi McCollum: Just like the bus and the bus’s interior, its exterior are a reflection of the transit agency, your headquarters is
32:09 Levi McCollum: a reflection of your agency. Unfortunately or fortunately, you’ve got, you know, 1,000, 2,000, 3,000, you know, if You’re a
32:19 Levi McCollum: super large agency. Maybe you’ve got 8, 10,000 of these things to be able to maintain properly.
32:26 Levi McCollum: You got, you have to dedicate the resources to it because if they end up on one of those lists,
32:32 Levi McCollum: then it just reinforces this narrative like, oh, you know, public transit is used by such and such people.
32:39 Levi McCollum: And that’s not what we want.
32:41 Levi McCollum: You know, we, we want it to have a different air to it.
32:46 Levi McCollum: It needs to be represented well.
32:48 Levi McCollum: And you know, just to make one final point on this, folks are driving by every day.
32:56 Levi McCollum: The folks that are not taking the system, right.
32:59 Levi McCollum: They’re in cars. What do they see? They see your bus and they see your bus stop.
33:04 Levi McCollum: So I would say keep those two things in mind.
33:07 Christian Londono: Yeah. You know, something. Damn. Wow.
33:10 Christian Londono: You said two things that really got me excited, Levi.
33:13 Christian Londono: One is, and I remember when we were working on the bus shelter project, you know, expansion and replacement project,
33:22 Christian Londono: we work on that at Palm Trend to, you know, replace a lot of the aging, you know, past the
33:29 Christian Londono: useful life shelters and then be able to add new ones.
33:32 Christian Londono: And one of the things we would say is that this project is so important because it’s very visual for
33:37 Christian Londono: the community. Right. Like, even if people don’t ride the public transit system, you create this very nice bus stops
33:42 Christian Londono: and people notice it, like they’re driving by and they would see it, they would be like, wow, that, that’s
33:46 Christian Londono: nice. Like, it makes your transit system, system more visible.
33:52 Christian Londono: So definitely it’s something to keep in mind.
33:55 Christian Londono: It’s a good representation for the system.
33:57 Christian Londono: It also makes me think about, you know, increasing ridership in people that might be a.
34:03 Christian Londono: Trying a transit and maybe some kids that are going to school and then they’re, they’re now trying to figure
34:11 Christian Londono: it out how to, you know, get around.
34:13 Christian Londono: And then they go and try transit maybe for the first time and if they have a good experience.
34:19 Christian Londono: And today if you’re in a shelter, if you’re sitting and hopefully you’re, you’re comfortable where you’re waiting for the
34:25 Christian Londono: bus. Everybody has their phone with them.
34:28 Christian Londono: So they’re on their phone, you know, watching TikTok or doing the Instagram.
34:32 Christian Londono: And then the bus showed up and then they got on the bus and you know, that has wi fi
34:36 Christian Londono: and it’s a good experience. They’re going to keep doing it.
34:40 Christian Londono: But I know the same is, or the opposite is cases for when people have a really bad experience, especially
34:48 Christian Londono: waiting for the system. And you know, I’ve been in that situation waiting for the bus at stops with Nothing.
34:55 Christian Londono: Just a pole on the ground.
34:57 Christian Londono: And, man, you cannot even look at your phone.
35:00 Christian Londono: Like, if it’s a very sunny day, like, the glare doesn’t even let you see the screen, and then you’re
35:05 Christian Londono: sweating and you’re hot and there’s nowhere to hide.
35:09 Christian Londono: Like, there’s nothing to hide. There’s nowhere to hide from the elements.
35:13 Christian Londono: So what makes you think is, first, I cannot do this again.
35:18 Christian Londono: Like, I’m not going to be doing this.
35:20 Christian Londono: I have to figure it out.
35:21 Christian Londono: Either a different place to wait for the bus, or I’m going to get a scooter, or I’m going to
35:26 Christian Londono: pay for Uber. It forced you to look for other ways to get around because it’s just so difficult, you
35:33 Christian Londono: know, to wait under those conditions for, for the bus service.
35:37 Christian Londono: So definitely it’s important to keep in mind, you know, the, you know, how it represents the system and how
35:45 Christian Londono: it impacts the. The customer experience.
35:48 Christian Londono: And the last thing to say about this is that I would encourage agencies to also have fun with this
35:55 Christian Londono: when possible, involving art in public places and just doing artistic or theme shelters.
36:04 Christian Londono: So you might recall Levi, at Palm Trend, we had the opportunity to work at a couple of bus shelters
36:13 Christian Londono: that were built right next to what was originally the ballpark of the Palm Beaches, which was a baseball field.
36:23 Christian Londono: And then, you know, our bus service, or pumpkin service was providing, of course, routes and, you know, way to
36:32 Christian Londono: get to the stadium. And boat shelters were designed, you know, were themed around baseball.
36:38 Christian Londono: So the benches were like half of baseball and, like, the back panel had cut out.
36:43 Christian Londono: You know, baseball players just, you know, with a bat and maybe catching a ball.
36:51 Christian Londono: So that was really cool because, you know, going back to people driving by and seeing it, even if they
36:56 Christian Londono: don’t regularly ride transit, they can see that riding transit to the games as an option.
37:02 Christian Londono: And it’s a fun way to, you know, make it artistic and, you know, provide the amenities.
37:09 Christian Londono: So 100%. Can you think of some other, you know, theme shelters that you know, of or other places or
37:17 Christian Londono: systems that have gone this route with going crazy with shelters and doing some nice theme locations?
37:27 Levi McCollum: Well, I can’t think of any off the top of my head that are, you know, quite as nice as
37:32 Levi McCollum: that one. Give a shout out there to my Route 3.
37:36 Levi McCollum: That’s the palm trend Route 3 here on Military that goes right by those ballparks.
37:42 Levi McCollum: And also a shout out to Steve Anderson, who both of us worked with at Palm Tren.
37:48 Levi McCollum: You did. You worked with him for quite a bit longer than I did.
37:51 Levi McCollum: But, you know, I think he was instrumental in that effort for that bus shelter.
37:58 Levi McCollum: You know, I don’t have any other examples that just pop out to me right now.
38:03 Levi McCollum: I think the art in public places and when I lived in Dallas, you know, several DART stations, this is
38:12 Levi McCollum: not bus stop, this is more rail.
38:14 Levi McCollum: But a lot of those stations had art in public places, you know, from local Dallas artists.
38:19 Levi McCollum: And it was always cool to see that.
38:22 Levi McCollum: You know, I think on the, maybe the other end, I remember when you and I were in Pittsburgh and
38:29 Levi McCollum: you know, Pittsburgh has some really nice stops and I love their service overall.
38:33 Levi McCollum: But do you remember being on the side of the road at the Duquesne Incline when we were wedged in
38:40 Levi McCollum: between the forest essentially for, you know, that goes up to Mount Washington and right there along the road was
38:50 Levi McCollum: our bus stop. So, you know, you didn’t really have a lot of right away to work with there.
38:56 Levi McCollum: I don’t know what they would have done for a bus stop to make that any better, but it felt
39:01 Levi McCollum: very uncomfortable being that close to the road.
39:04 Levi McCollum: But really, to answer your question, no, I don’t have any other examples at the top of my mind right
39:10 Levi McCollum: now. Do you have any others?
39:12 Christian Londono: Well, you know, something you mentioned before about the blog with the stops I’ve seen in New York, if you
39:20 Christian Londono: look on YouTube or any of the social media platforms, there’s videos where they show the top stations and the
39:31 Christian Londono: worst also with water leaking and, you know, rats and all kinds of bad things.
39:37 Christian Londono: But also they have very nice ones.
39:39 Christian Londono: You know, the one that is very close to the one World Trade center that looks very futuristic on the
39:45 Christian Londono: outside. I think it’s one of the, the main stations.
39:50 Christian Londono: You know, it’s very beautiful. The, the design inside and outside is just outstanding.
39:56 Christian Londono: So there’s definitely a lot of examples around the country, different systems that have gone to the extent of incorporating
40:03 Christian Londono: art and just making it so much nicer for everybody that is using it.
40:08 Christian Londono: And one thing I want to say too, that also speaks about the needs for amenities.
40:14 Christian Londono: And you mentioned in that blog like somebody just building a bench and putting it somewhere.
40:19 Christian Londono: There was an article that came out in la, there was like this, like a known person that was also
40:27 Christian Londono: building benches and putting them around in a lot of stops.
40:31 Christian Londono: And they got up to, you know, I think close to a hundred of them throughout the system.
40:36 Christian Londono: They were just built them themselves and putting them up at different stops so people could just sit and improve
40:43 Christian Londono: their waiting experience. So talk about, you know, the community taking up to themselves to, to provide some, you know,
40:51 Christian Londono: Bust Up Amenities. But it just only highlights the importance for them.
40:56 Levi McCollum: Absolutely. Yeah. And it’s Streets Blog, Streets Blog usa.
40:59 Levi McCollum: I couldn’t think of it earlier so I had to look it up.
41:01 Levi McCollum: But shout out to them. They have a lot of good content.
41:05 Christian Londono: Yeah, Levi, there’s, there’s definitely a lot of examples of blogs and you know, a lot of writers just sharing
41:12 Christian Londono: their experience riding the transit system.
41:16 Christian Londono: And one of the things they always highlight is the infrastructure, starting from the stops to, you know, the experience
41:22 Christian Londono: of actually using the system. So, you know, thank you for sharing that blog with everybody listening in and I’m
41:29 Christian Londono: pretty sure they’ve experienced some of those blogs themselves.
41:32 Christian Londono: So if you have one that you would like us to take a look at or you will recommend, please,
41:37 Christian Londono: by all means share it with us.
41:39 Christian Londono: And on that note, I just want to close this episode.
41:42 Christian Londono: It’s been a lot of fun, Levi, discussing with you Bust Up Amenities.
41:47 Christian Londono: It’s, it’s really important when it comes to the writer’s experience and as we all work on, you know, getting
41:55 Christian Londono: more riders into our systems is definitely one of those key elements to include into your, you know, ridership strategy.
42:08 Christian Londono: So definitely want to encourage our listeners to think about their local bus stops and think about potential improvements.
42:17 Christian Londono: Look at technology, new technology that is coming out there for passenger waiting amenities.
42:23 Christian Londono: And when you go to the different conferences, you get to experience that and see some implementations in other places
42:31 Christian Londono: around the country. I tell you Levi, I’m attending the APTA Mobility Conference in Austin and Cap Metro has, you
42:42 Christian Londono: know, really good a amount of amenities out there in their system and something that I notice is that they
42:50 Christian Londono: strategically put the panels on the shelters depending on how this, the the sun is is located and where the,
42:59 Christian Londono: the bus stop is located to provide that shelter.
43:02 Christian Londono: So great, great discussion. Today I want to invite our listeners to listen to our next episode.
43:07 Christian Londono: We’ll releasing episodes every Monday, so please stay tuned and thank you for your following Stop requested and listening to
43:17 Christian Londono: us and Stop Requested podcast.