We can’t choose between, you know, fixing the issues today and building tomorrow. We’ve gotta do both. Stop Requested. This is Stop Requested. by ETA.
I’m Christian. And I’m Levi. These are real conversations with the innovators, operators, and advocates driving improvements in public transportation.
Today, we’re joined by Charles Frazier, CEO of the Chattanooga Area Regional Transportation. Authority, or CARTA, in Tennessee. Charles has spent his career leading transit agencies across the country, and now he’s helping CARTA, overcome decades of underfunding while building a new vision for public transportation in Chattanooga. We talk about the challenges of rebuilding an agency while keeping service running, the importance of listening to employees and riders, and how Charles is approaching everything from service improvements to autonomous shuttles and workforce development.
Here’s our conversation with CARTA CEO, Charles Frazier. Welcome back to Stop Requested. Uh, we’re back with another phenomenal episode today. Uh, you know, today we’re honored to be joined by a trailblazer, a phenomenal leader that is making, uh, you know, a lot of improvements in our industry, and also friend and mentor of mine. And this is Mr. Charles Frazier. He’s the, uh, chief executive officer at the Chattanooga Area Regional Transportation Authority in Tennessee. Charles, how you doing today? Hey, I’m doing great, Christian and Levi.
It is, um, fantastic to hear your voice. Obviously, you and I have worked together in the past. We’re colleagues, and we’re friends, and I’m thrilled to spend some time with you today.
And, and you have a, a phenomenal, uh, you know, a history in transit. Like, you, you work at different transit agencies, and, and I imagine every, every place where you’ve gone, you know, you, you take with you a lot of those best practices and projects, and you keep building on it. So I definitely wanna hear how, you know, your experience, uh, it’s helping you today as CEO to make the decisions at your agency. Uh, but b- before we get started, uh, you know, again, welcome to
Stop Requested. For our listeners that are unfamiliar with your agency, CARTA, how would you describe the agency and its role in the Chattanooga region? Yeah, that’s, that’s great. So first of all, let’s start with, um, what CARTA stands for. So we’re the
Chattanooga Area Regional Transportation Authority, and it is a very unique authority in my assessment, and that’s because, number one, we have three distinct business units. So the first one is public transit, and so that’s all of the things that you would typically think of, big bus, paratransit, microtransit.
But then we also own and operate the historic incline railway, which is the steepest and longest, uh, rail funicular in North America. So that’s a very interesting- Oh, wow … transit, transit and, um, attraction. It’s, it’s a tourist attraction as well, so it’s both, it’s both things.
But then we also own and operate, um, parking. And so we own parking garages. We own parking lots, and all of that parking revenue funds a free downtown shuttle, and so that’s the third business unit is this parking and downtown shuttle.
And so I think to just kind of, when I’m looking across transit agencies, um, the combination of those three things makes CARTA very unique.
So that’s, that’s a big overview of, of the, the organization itself. But what I think is probably relevant for people is to understand really what’s happened here in
Chattanooga in the last four years. And so I, I wanna spend a little time helping, uh, your audience understand that. So four years ago-
Right … um, our mayor, the city council, took very bold action, and they fired the entire board of CARTA. So there was a, a prior board. There was a prior
CEO, and the reason they took that action is the city and the mayor recognized that as Chattanooga’s growing, um, more people are moving here, traffic is becoming a problem, um, they really wanted to be intentional about reimagining mobility in this community and making sure that, um, we were investing in public transit properly. And so the way in which they did that was, was get rid of the prior board. That prior board, um, retired the prior, my predecessor and the management team, and then, um, brought me on board in 2024, and now we have a new management team.
So I, I give you that kind of background because, um, what we’ve discovered since we’ve been here is a really kind of a challenging situation, and we’ll, we’ll talk about those things. But what- what’s happened here at CARTA is that prior to the, to the city taking this kind of action, um, CARTA has been chronically underfunded for probably the last 30 years.
And so let me… I’m gonna succinctly tell you what that means. Um, my predecessor, the prior board, they always made the least expensive decision, and that means when the person they were hiring, um, deferring maintenance, not investing in, um, technology, and all of those things catch up with, with, with any organization, but in particular with transit.
And so what we’re really trying to do is rebuild the foundation right now, um, and at the same time, kind of cast that long range vision. So I give you that overview of, of CARTA so that you and your audience understand kind of the, the starting point for, for when I got here. And, and, and it’s an ex- exciting time, right? Because, you know, you’re, you know, as you were mentioning the, the struggles and the challenges and, and the previous, uh, vision and, and even kinda like Attitude and perspective to- towards transit, it, it, it, things, you know, sometimes is, is a different focus, right? Like it’s, it’s we have to try, to keep it not too expensive, you know, like try to keep it small and, and, you know, maybe it’s not a priority at that time.
And, and, you know, priorities change, and public transit is, is a critical, um, you know, a, a part of the economy, and, and it drives the economy. And if you’re not prioritizing transit, then, then you- maybe you’re affecting your local economy. So, uh, you know, it’s very exciting to be at this time where now you’re establishing that new vision, and you’re starting to get a lot of these projects off the ground.
I think as a leader, you want to transform your agency. You have, you have, you wanna see those results in the, in the impact in the community. And, you know, if you don’t have any exciting projects happening, it’s very hard to see those things through. So what are the most important opportunities and challenges today?
Like w- w- because you have to prioritize. I would imagine as a CEO, and, you know, there’s different things you could do with your service and, you know, y- the projects you’re prioritizing. Where, where are the opportunities and, and the challenges today? Yeah, that’s, that’s a good question. Well, first of all, let me just, you know, and, and you guys will both know this.
You know, I- I think one of the primary goals of, of public transit is to provide access to opportunity. And so that means, you know, it’s, it’s getting to work, it’s getting to training opportunities, it’s getting to school, getting to medical appointments, getting to the grocery store. As you said, it’s an economic driver.
And so I start with, you know, what we’re really doing here is we’ve gotta both fix the legacy operational issues from those long, from that long time of, of chronic underfunding, but at the same time, we’ve gotta prepare to build in the future.
And so I kind of, when I think of that in my mind, it’s like flying a plane and not being able to land it, but we need to repla- you know, we need to replace parts of the plane. So we, we gotta keep things, keep the buses rolling, but at the same time, we’ve gotta kind of fix the underlying problems, and then fix things in the fu- uh, prepare for the future. So the challenges that we have are, are not that far from what other transit s- agencies experience. Funding is the biggest one.
Um, so we don’t have a dedicated, um, source of funding here. We rely on federal grants, fares, and then we do have local funding that takes place, but that needs to be revisited, right? So that’s, that’s a big thing for us.
Um, interestingly, one of the big challenges we have today is capacity. And what I mean is we came through, and kind of in our initial year, first year, we were able to fix a lot of things that were broken. For example, in our paratransit service, um, they, they weren’t using the technology properly, and when we fixed that, um, something great happened. The service became reliable.
The double edge of the sword, though, is that- Right … the ridership has grown to a- almost by 40% in two years. Oh. And so now we have a capacity issue, which leads to, you know, it can lead to service reliability issues. So, um, capacity is the next thing, so we’ve, we’ve had to TF grants and buy vehicles and, and get more operational dollars for, for, uh, additional drivers. So that, that’s an issue.
Um, but on the fixed route side of the world, really what we’re looking at there is infrastructure as a major, major problem. And so what I mean by that is every transit rider, uh, will start and end their trip as a pedestrian, and what we lack here in Chattanooga. in particular is infrastructure. I’m talking about sidewalks, um, landing pads, um, security lighting, shelters, benches, just the basics, um, to get people access to the transit system.
So those are, are some of the big challenges that we’re facing. Um, but let me contradict that with then the huge opportunities, and, and I don’t know that you’re aware of this, but, um, as we’re kind of looking forward, one of the things that we are, have recently announced is that CARTA is the awardee of a $25 million build grant, and that big investment is going to allow us to do two things. It’s gonna allow us to deploy autonomous public transit shuttles in our- Wow … downtown area, and we’re… Th- the first benefit of that is we get to replace the 30-year-old vehicles that have been doing that job for the last 30 years.
Um, the second part of that grant is going to rebuild the entire first floor of one of our parking garages, and that is gonna become a workforce development center, not only for CARTA’s employees, but for Chattanoogans and residents of Hamilton
County, um, to start upskilling people in these new technologies, such as autonomous vehicle technology.
So I think the thing I would want you to understand about the challenges and the opportunities is, uh,
I don’t, CARTA and, and me as the CEO, we don’t, we can’t choose between, you know, fixing the issues today and building tomorrow. We’ve gotta do both, and that’s where I come up with that, that visual image of you, for you, is, is trying to fly the plane- … not being able to land it, but trying to, you know, replace the wing at the same time.
So Charles, uh, Christian mentioned that you’ve got a breadth of experience across multiple agencies in, in public transportation. I’m, I’m curious to kinda dive into that a little bit more and, and shift the conversation m- back towards you a bit so we can learn more about you. W- w- what first attracted you to public transportation as maybe a, a, you know, a concept, and then eventually a career and, you know, now being in the CEO role that you’re in today at CARTA? Yeah, I’m happy to, to share that with you. And, and I, I would, for a while, um, I was calling myself an accidental transit professional.
But let me- … let me, let me, let me maybe take it back for you for something that’s, that’s real for me. Um, and, and that’s when I was a, a youngster, so I’m, I’m talking like a, a junior in high school, and my parents got separated. I was living in the
Northwest. My parents got separated, and, um, I have this story that I’ve, I’ve told before, and it’s called
Powdered Milk. And what was going on was my parents were separated, my mom was working two jobs. We didn’t have a lot of money, and towards the end of the week when the groceries were running, out, um, there was this thing that we did as the kids, and we would… We ran out of fresh milk, and so we would make powdered milk to get us through the rest of the week.
And that really stuck, that, that, that struck a chord of me as a child. And so I always had it in my mind that as soon as I could work, I would. And so when I turned 15 and a half, um, I got my first job at Kentucky
Fried Chicken, and the way in which I was able to get to that job was by taking the bus, the city bus. And so I didn’t even know it at the time, but what that bus did for me and my family was it gave me access to opportunity. It gave me access to that job.
And so that’s the… I wanna, I give you that kind of anchor memory of mine, um, because kind of in my professional life, what happened was
I started, um… I’ve always been in, in public, in the public sector. I started in Palm Beach County in the year 2000, and I, I wasn’t in transit at that time. I started in community services, and that’s direct outreach to the community, like
Head Start, Veterans Affairs, um, human services, and I really enjoyed the aspect of, of supporting the community. And through some really good mentoring, um, I was mentored.
Uh, I was, I was put on a career path, um, I think to be kind of a county administrator or something like that. But what happened is I got promoted to be the deputy, uh, director of Palm
Tran, uh, the transit system in the county, and I didn’t have one day of transit experience in my, in my resume, but I was a problem solver, and, um, that really started everything. Um, as soon as I got into transit, um, it was a, a great service for the community. I understood about the access to opportunity that it was giving people, and then all of the other things that I had to learn about vehicle maintenance, scheduling, grant writing, sh- all of that just makes sense for me, and that really started my career. Um, and since that time, uh, I’ve been in four different transit systems, and I’m, I’m still learning every day. I love being the CEO of a transit system, and the thing I like most about it is, um, you know, getting to work with people, whether it’s our customers or our operators. Um, yeah, it, it works for me. Yeah, I mean, it’s really impressive, and, uh, you know, we often find that people don’t have a linear path to get to the position that they’re in when we talk to them on the podcast.
It often is winding, and sometimes there are some ups, and sometimes there are some downs, and you, you just have to kinda roll with it. It, it sounds like that’s what you’re able to do, and you, you have made a very successful career out of it. Um, you know, you’ve, you’ve worked at Jacksonville and, and Little Rock in, in my home state of Arkansas, um, you know, Palm Tran, as you mentioned, now CARTA. What are some of the experiences, or are there any experiences that are k- top of mind for you from those prior roles that you’ve been able to bring over, uh, and, and actually use to, uh, make actionable in Chattanooga?
Yeah, the answer is absolutely yes, and I have, like, a laundry list of things that I, I depend upon every day and that I’ve learned along the way. And again, you know, I was,
I was really well mentored by many good leaders about, about how to, how to be a, an, an engaged CEO. And so, you know, the…
I’ll, I’ll give you the first one, and that is I go, when I, when I need answers, I go to the people that are closest to the work. And so what I mean by that is if, if we’re having a problem in, with vehicle maintenance or breakdowns, um, my first stop is gonna usually be with the vehicle maintenance employees themselves to, um, maybe put on my v- vehicle maintenance uniform and have them show me. Like, “Show me, what is it that we’re doing for this preventative maintenance, um, process, and, and why does this, you know, challenge keep happening to us?” So I, I… That’s the first thing is I go, and I s- I listen to the people that are closest to the, to the work. I do that the same with bus operators for running time on routes if that’s a problem, or, um, even technology solutions. So I, I go to the people, uh, closest to the work, number one. Number two, um,
I make sure that I understand what is important to our elected officials.
Um, I, I, I think that people don’t understand the importance of really engaging with your elected officials to understand, number one, what their expectations are from, uh, their public transit system, what their constituents’ expectations are about the public transit system, and that has been very valuable to me. So I, I maintain relationships, um, with every single elected official that will allow me to do so. Um, and then, and maybe the third one for, for this conversation is, um, using the service itself. So
I, I ride the bus. I, I use our parking facilities. I use the incline, and I get to know our, our riders, and so that, that’s really important to me, um, understanding from a rider’s point of view, a customer’s point of view, um, what do they need? ‘Cause I, I just don’t think that you can always
Answer those questions well from behind the desk. I think you actually, I think you need to be, you know, have eyes on things like that. So maybe those are my top three, uh, that I would offer you today. Today’s episode is brought to you by ETA.
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I think those are super important and, and, and those are really, uh, great three for any trans CEO and, and particularly just transit professionals i, in general.
You know, I love how you look at performance improvement, right? Like that, that’s all that kaizen philosophy, which is the root cause analysis. You have to go to the source, pay respect to the source where things are actually happening so you can understand the root cause. Good point. If you’re just leading from the top, from behind a desk, you know, you, you, you’re missing out on a lot of critical information to help you make the most efficient decisions. But something that you said that, that I think is, is very important, particularly for transit CEOs, you know, as a public transit agency, public transit happens, a, in the community with every, every other player that is out there in the community, right? Like we don’t control a lot of those external sources, uh, or, or factors that influence transit, so you have to kinda like play along with everybody.
But, you know, sometimes when folks get to that CEO seat, and we have people on the podcast that have gotten to that CEO seat for the first time, and sometimes people get to that seat like through, uh, transit operations, and then they are still kind of focused on looking at transit operations, and then they’re missing out on, you know, your second recommendation.
We has, we, it has to do with connecting with elected officials, which is, I think, one of the most important roles of the CEO is really building that bridge, understanding, you know, their goals also that they have within their different districts and what they’re trying to achieve, and trying to make that connection. And, and that’s what helps transit agencies become relevant and get some of their projects underway, because you cannot just operate in a vacuum, because public transit is not in a vacuum. Public transit is really in the community.
So, um, as you came to, to CARTA and, you know, I would imagine as CEOs get to different places, and for you it’s been more than once that you’ve gotten to that seat, um, you know, how do you establish your first priorities? Uh, how, how did you say, “Okay, this is the community.
This is my assessment thus far. These are my, my priorities that I’m gonna start with”? Yeah, I mean, so I took a pretty, um, what I would kinda… I, I think a practiced a- approach, at least practiced for me, because I’ve done this.
You know, I’ve, I’ve introduced myself into new organizations several times. Um, and so I, I set a kind of a goal for myself. I, I knew that I would do a hundred-day assessment with a formal report to the board, and, and what that really was doing was that was me listening. Listening to our employees, listening to our riders, listening to the new board, listening to the union president, meeting with folks, um, riding the system, um, visiting the call center, you know, going out into the maintenance shop. All of these things, it was really just filling my, my brain, um, every single day with w- what is happening inside the organization.
And then do that also externally, going to meet with elected officials, going to meet with our business partners that might be dialysis center, work locations, all of those things.
Um, reviewing, uh, in this case, I was, I was trying to review policies and procedures which j- just the, the n- newsflash here, were, were not existing, w- which became one of my big action items. But, you know, after kind of spending that time listening, riding the system, understanding the employees, um,
I, I looked and had to kind of prioritize fixing the most critical items. So for, for public transit, always thinking about safety, compliance, um, first, because if we’re not doing things safely and, and in compliance, we shouldn’t be doing them at all. Prioritizing those things- Right … um, on the service side of the world.
Uh, secondly and equally important, you started to talk about this a little bit, Christian, but reintroducing CARTA to the community.
And what I mean by that was actually doing transit tours with different boards, the Chamber of Commerce, um, uh, nonprofit organizations.
Literally getting them on the bus, showing them the state of the system, riding together, having conversation about the lack of infrastructure, the lack of shelters, whatever it was.
Um, but re-engaging CARTA to the community as an invested and trusted partner, um, at the table, and I think that that had not really taken place, so that was kind of my second pillar. And then also I did, to the best of my ability at the time, in those kind of first assessment months, um, look for really quick wins, right? What could we do today without even thinking about it? And, and we did a couple of things. So for example, we had the board set up a pilot program called
Read and Ride, where all students K through t- 12, uh, were able to ride Fare, fare free on, on fixed route.
And it was a huge success because, number one, students needed, y- student needs access to, to transit. Um, but we were doing the travel training with classrooms and teachers and volunteer organizations, and it just became a huge success, and it really put us on the map in a, in a new way. But it was a win for parents that needed a way for their kids to get to after-school programs. So quick wins like Read and Ride. We also, um, made the first hour of free parking in our garages, which is a little bit counterintuitive to people.
Um, but what it did was it, it made people wanna go there and take advantage of the first hour free. Right. Um, but what, what happened is they stayed the second hour and paid for that, but stayed the third hour as well, and so utilization went up, revenue went up. So I think kind of those, those things, right? It was listening, coming up with my, my, my immediate action items, a hundred-day report, fixing the most critical items, being safety and compliance issues, reintroducing CARTA to the community by engaging with the community, and then stead- standing up these kind of quick-win programs.
Um, so those… that’s kind of the approach that I took, but I would take that same ap- same approach anywhere that I’ve been. So s- same process. Yeah. And, and, and you see that approach, I think, uh, applies across any industry, right?
Like, I- That’s right … I think it’s, it would be best practice for any CEO or e- e- even, you know, any executive a- as you’re coming into a position, is to make that assessment and, and learn, you know? I, I see, uh, you know, the main, uh, key, uh, topic of what you said is education.
Education is super paramount. Like, you, you have to learn yourself. You know, it’s very hard to make decisions and to speak intelligently about anything that you don’t know about. If you study it, if you learn it, you know, like you said, you, you were riding the system, you were, you know, having the conversations, learning how the community was using the system, like it, it just gives you all this knowledge to be able to really make decisions and, and, and, you know, help the agency, lead the agency to the next, uh, step. But the, also the education to stakeholders.
I- and I wanna highlight that because, you know, I remember, uh, y- this is something that is not new for you because I recall working with you at Palm Tran and doing tours with the board members. Yeah. And it’s just you have to work on that, on that education, and then it, it increases your sensitivity towards a given issue or matter, right? Like, if I’m a board member for transit, and I’m not even encouraged to ride, to see the service, to see what it does, then it’s different. Like, my perspective is different than if you bring me as close and any of the community partners where they ride the service, they see it, and you start now finding, you know, people are more, have more sensitivity for transit. It’s like they understand it.
They wanna support it. And then they start even giving you ideas how you could collaborate, because I see that education, you know, with the, the, the students riding and getting to read, that, that’s collaborating, right? With different partners and then, you know, giving something, a win to the community.
Uh, so kudos, uh, for, for doing that. It, it’s so imp- it’s so important. Um, I have… And, uh, we don’t, we don’t stop doing that. So I have a new board member that’ll be joining the organization, and we have three new elected officials that were just voted into office.
And so those, uh, I’ve already teed up, like, the bus rides with those folks to get them out on the system because… And I,
I think I, I don’t, I, I have a d- I’m a visual learner, and so I m- for me to really understand things, I must see them and experience them and, and go and do it. And so I just, that’s what I do with everybody else, and I’ve just found that that is a great way for other people to really understand what you’re saying when you talk about no bus stop infrastructure. People, they don’t realize that people are standing in the mud or that a person in, in a wheelchair can’t even take the bus. And it’s free for them to take it if they could just get to it. But they don’t understand unless they see the bus stop itself, the, the, the pole has been pounded into the mud, and there’s no way for them to access the service. So it, I think it’s very important for people to see and feel things.
So, so you’re coming in, you’re finding all these, uh, immediate, uh, kinda like urgent matters. You mentioned, you know, safety related, you know, compliance. Those are paramount. Like, there’s something that we kinda have to work on
ASAP. Then you have the lows, th- those low-hanging fruit improvements that start giving the agency wins. But then you start painting the, um, kind of the, the, the long-range vision, a, i- in trying to get the employees excited. So h- how do you manage to start painting that vision? At, at one point you started kinda like, you know, telling people about the future of CARTA and getting the employees excited about all these changes. Yeah. Uh, that is super important. So people need to know that we’re headed in a direction.
And so one of… So I went b- I said this earlier when we were first starting, which is, you know, we, we… I, I can’t choose to only fix what’s broken without also at the same time casting the long-term vision. So we did, we’ve done both.
Um, what we did was… And, and so the good news is my predecessors had done three different transit studies, um, with Via, Nelson
Nygaard, um, Jarrett Walker, and, and the results of those studies unfortunately, uh, just sat on a shelf, and they were, they were never implemented. They all required additional funding for improvements to take place. And so what we did was we took those three studies, and we married them to the city of Chattanooga’s long-term comprehensive growth plan called Plan
Chattanooga. And so just real quickly for you, what that means is that when an elected official or the planning commission is looking to approve a project and they open the map They can see what the long-range vision for transit is. In other words, oh, in this part of town, there’s a plan for a fixed route, or there’s a plan for a microtransit zone, or there’s a plan for a park and ride. So that, that long-range vision has been cast, and we, and we have a video that explains it, and we’ve, you know, showed that to the employees. But what I wanna make sure that you know is having that long-range vision isn’t, isn’t really quite enough. What you need to have then are the, the steps to get to that. So we also have a five-year transformation plan, which is a subset of the 20-year plan, and then we have a three-year action plan, which is the budgeted subset of the five-year plan.
And so- Right … that is really like it’s, it’s kind of one’s foot in front of the other, and there are some, you know, some requirements for additional funding, and that’s something that we have to deal with here.
But what we’ve done is at least there’s a roadmap on how we would get there and what the funding would pay for. So that’s hugely important, and it ties back to, you know, a- all of the things that we’re kind of working on, the challenges with funding, capacity, reliability, infrastructure, um, all, all hugely important. So casting that vision is critical. And Charles, you mentioned those three plans that had been worked on previously by three different consultants. I,
I’m wondering how you were able to, uh, decide which of those y- you went with. I know y- it sound, or at least it sounds like it was a maybe amalgamation of, of the three, but w- was there something else that was underlying it other than your regional plan that kind of helped push you to, you know, one design over another? Yeah. So here, the, the, the answer lies– y- you actually said it. We took all three of those plans, and they all gave, you know, s- there were some similar overlapping recommendations, and those were kind of easy. Then there were some recommendations that were different amongst the plans. But when we needed to make a decision on a particular plan, uh, uh, uh, an element of the transit plan, we looked to the comprehensive growth strategy of the city to say,
“Hey, what, these transit plans call for a microtransit service over here. What is the comprehensive growth plan call for? Is there housing there? Is there jobs there?”
And that usually led us to the right decision because what we wanted to be able to demonstrate was that the comprehensive growth plan, in other words, where will homes be build, built? Where will jobs likely be located?
Where are road improvements planned for? That allowed us to go in and say, “Oh, well, it makes sense then that park and ride locations would be here. It makes sense then that we take this fixed route improvement from transit plan
A and apply it. In this other case, it l- it, we should take this microtransit service plan from transit plan B and apply it here’ because there’s gonna be a, you know, uh, it’s good for a first mile, last mile solution.”
So it was a process, an intentional process. It wasn’t, uh, random. I see. And o- once you implement some of those service changes, how are you going to be able to determine if it’s successful or not?
Like, what are some of the KPIs maybe that you’re looking for? Um, y- you know, what period of time are you gonna be measuring if it’s successful or not? Curious ab- Yeah … about that. Yeah, sure. And I think, you know, just so a little bit in the weeds here, um, something, th- so the, one of the key priorities in my first hundred days when I was here is that PARTA was missing what I call some of the basic policy documents that every transit system should have. For example, a bus stop guidelines, um, policy, a service standards policy that defines, you know, what type of service, what frequency, and your KPIs. Like, we didn’t have any of those policy documents. And so since that time, and over the last two years, we have now, created those things.
And so Levi, to answer your question, there’s a, a couple different things that we’ll be looking at. So today, um, now, that we have service standards, we have in that defined, uh, primary and secondary KPIs that we look to, and so these would be things that all of your listeners would likely know, right? Missed trips, on-time performance, uh, mean distance between breakdowns, tho- those types of measurements.
Um, also, though, um, we stood up for the, first time, so this goes back to chronic underfunding, we’ve never had a customer service call center or department or a database in which we actually captured feedback from riders and did something about it. And so what, to answer your question, Levi, I think what we’ll be doing is kind of going through kind of methodically, right? Do the, is this new service meeting our primary and secondary, um, key performance indicators, ridership, on-time performance, those things. But also, we’re gonna be engaged with our riders and finding out, you know, are you, were you able to get to your destination on time in a reasonable amount of time? Is this what you expected? So it’s a customer satisfaction. We do now annual survey, rider surveys.
We’re constantly, you know, engaging with our riders in that way. Um, so th- those would be the ways that we’ll, we’ll measure the success of those things, uh, once they’re deployed. Yeah, and, you know, if we recall that conversation, uh, with, with Jerry Walker, uh, about coverage versus ridership, right? It’s just not fair to measure all services, uh, the same way.
Plus I, I always, you know, saw routes, like individual routes and individual services as different products that an agency puts out for the community, right? That’s right. Like, nobody is buying all products, right? Like, not, not all riders are riders of every single route and every single service. So they, they serve different purposes in different communities, different origins and different destinations. So it’s, it’s, you have to understand that very well and, and so you can make the trade-offs because a lot of the times they’re looking for agencies t- for all the service to be ridership service, and that, that’s not a, a fair way to, to measure public transit. And then you cannot also build a network that is exclusively ridership and then they, they don’t leave space for the coverage service for those early morning, late night, you know, weekends, kind of like more suburban areas where, again, to, to your words, using your words, are providing access to opportunity. That might be the only way for those people to get to that one job. But then I, I, I wanna talk about, um, as you went through that, a- and I would imagine there’s a correlation between the, uh, implementing, uh, microtransit and, you know, Carta Go and, you know, the, those other initiatives, um, w- with improving the network, right? Because we typically see.
that in the areas of the community where there’s population density, there’s not a lot of, um, propensity for riding transit. We’d sometimes in some communities take the fixed route out or reduce the, the fixed route service and then put, you know, first/last mile or microtransit as a way to get people, uh, to, to connect with transit. Uh, could you tell me a little bit about
Carta Go and how it connects to your vision and, and the redesigned network for the fixed route service? Yeah, I can. And I’ll, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll be succinct with you today, but it’s, it’s worth probably-
… a, a longer conversation. So what I’m gonna tell you is, you know, there’s, there’s lots of mobility tools that can be deployed to solve problems. For example, and, and there’s many of them we, that we’ don’t have here yet in Chattanooga. For example, a park and ride lot with a commuter bus that only runs, you know, three, four trips in the morning and then three, four trips a night. We’ don’t, we don’t have that mobility tool ready to deploy.
Van pool service, where you might be gathering folks from a particular part of the community and taking them to a common work location.
That’s a different mobility tool and a, and different set of KPIs. We don’t have that yet. Right. Um, what I’m gonna let you know, is that for the Carta Go, which is, um,
Carta’s first deployment of microtransit, was deployed before I got here. In, in my assessment and, what we’re, we’re preparing to change in the not too distant future is, is the, what that deployment was intended to solve, um, was too many things. So in other words, it was trying to both be a money saver for the organization by, by replacing two non-performing fixed routes.
At the same time, it was trying to be the first/last mile for, uh, another route. And then finally, it was also trying to be that in-zone transportation for not a hugely dense area. And so for me, that deployment was flawed and we’re s- we’re still mapping out how, that’s, how we’re going to undo that, um, because it’s trying to solve three problems at once. And so what I would let you know, is, um,
I think that, uh, transit systems need to be really, really intentional. I had a lot of experience, with this in particular in, um, Little Rock and then in Jacksonville. You know, you really need to understand what your objective is when you’re deploying the tool, the microtransit tool, because you’ve got such flexibility with designing the service. Is it’ point to point? Is it, is it more of a dial a ride where your reservation, where you’re making a reservation? Is it on demand?
Is it corner to corner? All of these, these questions, right? Hours of, o- operating hours, all those things. So
I would, I would just articulate to you that the way in which it complements our service today is that it is used as a first mile/last mile solution for people that are riding the main fixed route, which is our Route Four. It’s the spine of our service.
It is to get them first mile, last mile. But, uh, we also need to, to figure out how to segregate those trips from the trips that are being used for the point to point service within the zone itself, because the capacity now, is a problem. Ridership has grown so much- Yeah, … that’ the capacity has become an issue. So we’re looking at’ that’ and what I could, what I could let you know is kind of once that’s solved, the future deployments will be less, um, cumbersome because, they’ll, the, the intention will be clear, more clearly defined about what the role is of that, of that’ tool. It, makes it. hard to expect the service to do all those things with just one go.
Um, so I c- I could see where, you know, it, can run into some trouble with that one, and, hopefully it’s, m- you know, a little smoother going forward. Uh, Charles, with, with your background in, in IT’ and, you know, having worked at, uh, y- several different agencies,
I’m, I’m curious how you’re approaching the implementation of new technologies at Carta. Can you kinda walk us through what you’re evaluating and what you feel is most important and why?
Yeah, for sure. Um, well, so first of all, let, let me just let you know that, um, my position on this, uh, just in general with technology is that, um, while I don’t wanna be on the bleeding edge Of things. I think it’s important to be on the f- on the, on the cutting edge and the front edge of these technology changes, and I, I wanna be intentional about what our organization is doing. Um, and so, uh, I can kind of explain to you, you know, we have a, a, an existing parking. and downtown shuttle, ecosystem.
Those shuttles are 32, 31 years old. It’s old school battery, um, technology.
Um, but we have been very intentional, kept our eyes open, and that’ is how we secured the $25 million build grant that will allow us to begin deploying autonomous shuttles to replace that old school technology.
And kind of, the approach there is, so number one, we’re partnering with agencies, uh, that’ have deployed this already. Some of, my, my past history is with, uh, JTA, which has already deployed this. But Beep is a big industry leader. We have a very good partnership with
Beep. Um, but then the, the, local community, this, this might take me a minute to explain, but I think it’s important for your, for your listeners.
Here locally, Chattanooga has invested in smart city technology, and what that is, it’s the intersections, lidar, traffic signals.
And so when I’ve been thinking about getting investments and preparing mobility to take advantage of innovation, it is very specific that it’s connected autonomous vehicle technology,
CAV, and not just autonomous vehicles. And the reason for that is we wanna leverage the investments that have been made by our community already and take that to the next step. What’s important for you to understand about how we’re approaching this is the importance of prioritizing workforce development- Mm-hmm … as part of this deployment.
Because frankly, if we just deploy autonomous vehicles, uh, and that’s the only thing we do, we’ve really missed the opportunity. Um, I think that this is CARTA’s opportunity to, um, commit to the upskilling of our existing workforce.
There are many, many opportunities to upskill our mechanics, uh, so that they can become experts in maintaining autonomous vehicle technology, upskilling our existing shuttle operators such that they could be command center operators, onboard safety operators. So we’re really leaning into this and making sure that our investments are with partnerships that are familiar with this technology, but also that there’s an equal amount of investment going to our workforce, um, to make sure that we’re preparing them for the future. So I think that that’s the kind of the two big things for us that we’re, we’re looking at. Yeah, it, you know, we, we recently had another, uh, guest on our podcast and, and he said, “You know, a lot of the times agencies, uh, put projects out there because the shiny thing is the nice thing to do, and they don’t even have all the Lego pieces, so they never get, like, the final product.” So a- a- and, and it happens in a lot of organizations that, that learn and growth that, you know, that’s, that’s a strong pillar, any balanced scorecard, you know, uh, implementation. That pillar is very important because a lot of the times we go about, you know, the new project, the new shiny thing, and then we don’t think about, you know, training the employees. We don’t think about improving their knowhow and their skillset, and it’s like, oh, they’re just gonna have to catch up, or, you know, we’ll just do a, you know, like, a, a, some quick training. And, and the thing is, if you’re not intentional about developing your workforce and, and making sure you have, like, all the pieces for the Lego, like, you’re not gonna have a final product.
You’re gonna be, you know, uh, kinda like coming short. But then, uh, the other that you mentioned is with the partnerships with the community and in terms of workforce development and, and, you know, what’s in the community in terms of opportunities. Because i- if you bring in, let’s say, autonomous vehicles, it’s not like owning a vacuum doing autonomous vehicles.
It’s an opportunity for the entire community, right? Like, there’s jobs. What if there’s somebody already interested in our vehicles or, or there’s people that could have a job, um, you know, related to it i- if you’re involved the different stakeholders and, and, you know, develop the folks out there and, and create the knowhow. We see agencies that have shortages, staff, and, and it’s, they don’t have the, the knowhow, but, you know, i- if you build intentionally that arm where you can have your, you know, workforce ready for those, support those projects, then, then we’ll be successful ones.
Uh, Charles, a- as we’re, you know, coming close to the end, I, I wanted to ask you about your vision. So when you look five, 10 years, what would you… What would make you say CARTA’s in the right track? What’s happening at CARTA that makes you, you know, feel good about the future of CARTA? Yeah, um, thank you for that. And I definitely, I appreciate the time today. I de- I definitely wanna meet with you guys again and tell you more about that autonomous vehicle deployment. We’ve got some partners and good stories there, but I’ll answer your… I’m re- I’ll move on because I know we’re short on time, but let’s, let’s schedule a part two. 100%. Um, so for me, so for me, you know, looking, looking forward to the future, if I’m looking back, what we have to have is a reliable core network. Like, that service has to be reliable for, for people. It’s gotta have frequent fixed route corridors. I’m talking about 15 minutes where the density supports them.
Um, we need to have regional mobility. Right now, we do not serve the entirety of Hamilton County. That’s gotta be changed. Um, we have to have a, a microtransit and paratransit service that is giving access to persons with disabilities throughout the entire
County, we, we, we lack that today, so that, that’s hugely important for me. Um, w- I want it to be easy for our customers. What I’m talking about is their, their digital mobility experience, just things available on their phones, at kiosks, at our mobility hubs. Um, I wanna see our autonomous mobility, uh, project on the street and, and we will be successful with that because we’re not piloting a new service that doesn’t exist. We are replacing, uh, shuttles on routes that have existed for 30 years. So I feel really good about that. Um, and then I think we need a, a, a regional funding model here.
So if, if I’m, if I’m in the f- looking… If I’m in the future five years. and looking back, those are my, my top priorities, uh, for sure. Charles, as a part of the podcast, we have a couple where I, give the key takeaways from our conversation today.
You gave us so much gold throughout this conversation. I struggled to figure out which ones I was gonna prioritize. I’ve g- I’ve got several, uh, but I’ll try to keep this succinct.
Uh, access to opportunity, I mean, Christian and I use this all the time. We, we stole the phrase from, uh, Clinton B. Forbes.
Uh, y- you know, this is, this is the key part of what transit does for our communities. It provides people with that. access to be able to improve their lives. Um, and one thing that you said that I really liked was y- you don’t have to be a transit expert, you just need to know how to solve problems.
And, and, you know, that solving problems, uh, it can help you anywhere in, in life. But once, once you get into an organization, especially one, you need to listen, and you mentioned this as well, listen to the board, employees, the riders, union representatives, all those people are, are, are, are there and can be resources for you if you listen to them. Uh, you also said, go- to people who are closest to the work, which really love. Um, engage and understand your elected officials. I thought that was a really big, uh, takeaway, uh, at least for me.
Because, you know, oftentimes the, the politicians are the ones that, uh, you know, you, you wanna be on, their good side, but unless you engage them, you don’t really know what their expectations are and, and that, that was a, an important part of what you said. Um, you also said use the service, and I don’t think many leaders do this enough. You know, it, a takeaway for our audience, if you wanna keep rising up the ranks, want to improve yourself, find somebody else who’s been there before who can give you some tips along the way. Did I miss any key takeaways? Would you say anything differently?
I mean, I just gotta go back to the last thing you said about the mentors. I mean, ma- I, make no mistake, um, I have been blessed with amazing mentors my entire career. Um, and Clinton B. Forbes was one of them. Um, you know, so we all worked for the same organization and, and but I, I’ve al- I, I, I am so thankful that I had those folks showing me, teaching me along the way.
Um, so and I don’t think you missed anything. That one’s really important for me. Today, I try to pay that forward by making myself available for people and spending time sharing what I have learned. Um, but yeah, I think you nailed it, um, pretty well there, Levi.
Excellent. And, and those are, those are, uh, really great ta- uh, key takeaways. And I’ve also been blessed with, uh, a lot of great mentors. Uh, you, Charles, uh, one of ’em. And I recall our conversations and, and everything you, you pr- pretty much told me and advised me with to help me also get to the, where I am in my career. So again, thank you for that.
Forever grateful. And, and, you know, one thing is with your mentors is they stay with you, you know? That’s right. That’s right. You might have to move on, but they stay with you. You know, you can hear them in your mind, and it helps you make those decisions as you go along.
Uh, another recurring segment that we have on our podcast here is a quick-fire segment. So we pretty much, you know, quick, short, uh, questions, quick, short answers. Uh, it’s a little fun. Are you ready for it? Your favorite CARTA. route or service? It’s route four, our downtown to
Brainerd. Uh, one word to describe the future of transit in Chattanooga. Innovative.
In… A transit system that inspires you. Spokane, Washington. Oh, wow. Okay. Coffee or tea- You been? You gotta go.
You gotta go. I have to go visit? Yeah. Okay. I’ll make it, put it in my list. Uh, coffee or tea before a major board. meeting?
Coffee. Coffee. That’s me also. That’s right. I gotta do it. I’m caffeinated. That or nothing. That or I’m decaffeinated. So Charles, thank you very much for spending some time today and, uh, with our listeners here at Stop
Requested. How can people connect with you and learn more about the exciting things that are happening at CARTA? Many… Well, so you’re welcome to put my contact information out there. LinkedIn is always, um, available. Facebook, I’m on there as well. But, or just go to our website, uh, gocarta.org, and I would love to connect with anybody that’s interested. Excellent. Thank you. And, and thank you for all of our listeners for tuning in today for another episode of Stop Requested.
I will hope to have you again back next Monday with a new ep-
