Reimagining the Bus Stop as a Transit Gateway

00:00 Stop Requested

00:01 Levi McCollum: Welcome to Stop Requested, the podcast where we discuss everything transit.

00:05 Levi McCollum: I’m your co host Levi McCollum, director of operations at ETA Transit.

00:10 Christian Londono: And I’m your co host Christian Londono, Senior Customer Success Manager at ETA Transit.

00:20 Levi McCollum: Hey Christian, how are you doing?

00:22 Christian Londono: Doing good, Levi. How about you?

00:25 Levi McCollum: Yeah man, I’m doing very well.

00:27 Levi McCollum: I am again really excited to talk about our Stop Requested episode today.

00:33 Levi McCollum: This is going to be a good one.

00:35 Levi McCollum: It’s one that’s very close to me and I know it’s pretty close to you as well.

00:40 Levi McCollum: Bus Stop Amenities I think this is going to be a fun conversation because we have a lot of experience

00:45 Levi McCollum: in it and it is also a really important part of the customer experience.

00:53 Levi McCollum: So do you have any initial thoughts about bus stop amenities before we get into the nitty gritty?

00:59 Christian Londono: Yeah, bus stop amenities is very important and like you said, we both as transit planners and many of our

01:08 Christian Londono: listeners are transit planners as well.

01:10 Christian Londono: So I would imagine also for them it’s being part of their work life as a transit planner, being able

01:21 Christian Londono: to know, plan for amenities, manage the different amenities that they have in in their system.

01:29 Christian Londono: And for them, just as for ourselves, we can see the importance as part of the writers experience since it’s

01:38 Christian Londono: one of the first pieces of infrastructure that writers interact with and something just to to get this started in

01:47 Christian Londono: in why this is so important, I wanted to share some details about a study that I read about maybe

01:56 Christian Londono: two, three years ago. And my apologies because I don’t recollect exactly who completed the study, but I would tell

02:04 Christian Londono: you what it said and how relevant this to this conversation.

02:08 Christian Londono: And this study was about the perception of how long you waited for for bus service at a bus stop

02:21 Christian Londono: in correlation with amenities that were provided.

02:25 Christian Londono: And to make the long story short, at bus stops where there were no amenities whatsoever, just a pole in

02:32 Christian Londono: the ground and people were standing waiting for the bus, when people were asked how long they thought they waited

02:40 Christian Londono: for the bus, the times the people were stating were about twice and even more than twice as much as

02:48 Christian Londono: the actual time they were waiting there because there were people watching them and timing them.

02:52 Christian Londono: And then after they got in the bus they kind of like followed them on the bus and asked them

02:56 Christian Londono: how long do you think you waited for this bus? So at stops where there was some amenities, especially sitting

03:03 Christian Londono: where people were waiting, sitting, they perceived waiting time was closer to the actual time.

03:13 Christian Londono: And then the bus stops that were full complement of many of these sheltered seating, maybe with displays and so

03:24 Christian Londono: on with informational displays, people were asked how long they thought they were waiting.

03:30 Christian Londono: And some of them were actually given times that were slightly less than the actual time.

03:35 Christian Londono: So that’s kind of like how wanna open up this conversation is keeping in mind how important it is for

03:42 Christian Londono: people to feel comfortable when they’re waiting for the transit service and role that amenities take in making that perception

03:53 Christian Londono: to be closer to the actual time.

03:56 Christian Londono: So Levi, let’s start with the basics.

03:58 Christian Londono: What are bus stop amenities and how do you define them? And what are some that you can think about

04:05 Christian Londono: that are very common to see out there?

04:09 Levi McCollum: Yeah, I think a fairly simple description of a bus stop amenity would be an additional piece of equipment or

04:20 Levi McCollum: hardware, some physical part of the bus stop that’s more than just a pole and a sign.

04:28 Levi McCollum: Right. So a couple examples that come to mind would be the obvious ones, right? Like a shelter or maybe

04:34 Levi McCollum: it’s seating, you know, could be a bench or like the semi seat style.

04:40 Levi McCollum: You could be looking at real time displays.

04:43 Levi McCollum: Bicycle storage racks of course are common.

04:46 Levi McCollum: Trash bins, trash cans, some sort of lighting.

04:52 Levi McCollum: In some cases too, there are some more aesthetic type improvements that are done to a particular bus stop, like

05:02 Levi McCollum: art or some landscaping perhaps. So it can include a lot.

05:08 Unknown: Right.

05:09 Levi McCollum: It’s a very big umbrella. But I think it’s more than just the pole and the sign.

05:14 Levi McCollum: Once you get beyond that, then you say, okay, these are amenities, these are additions to the bus stop to

05:20 Levi McCollum: make it a little bit more attractive, to make it a little more comfortable and hopefully reduce that perceived waiting

05:27 Levi McCollum: time.

05:27 Unknown: Right.

05:28 Levi McCollum: Because it does play a role in the passenger psyche for sure.

05:33 Christian Londono: Yeah. And the thing is, you know, when you first look at this, and maybe for folks that are not

05:39 Christian Londono: transit planners or even for the riders and you know, the question in their mind might be like, well, how

05:47 Christian Londono: come you don’t have everything everywhere? You know, I, I think that I would appreciate having a bus shelter at

05:55 Christian Londono: all the stops where I go.

05:56 Christian Londono: So why don’t you have a bus shelter at every stop where you, where you provide service, where you stop?

06:03 Christian Londono: I want to be protected from the elements and I want to be waiting for the bus, you know, sitting.

06:09 Christian Londono: I don’t want to be standing.

06:10 Christian Londono: I mean standing. And also under the elements, under the rain, under the sun, it’s.

06:15 Christian Londono: It could be, you know, a torture.

06:19 Christian Londono: So, you know, the question is, how do you go about deciding where the amenities go and how much of

06:30 Christian Londono: each type do you install? So what can you tell me, Levi, kind of like with that transit planner cap

06:41 Christian Londono: on about prioritizing amenities and why Today, not every single stop has every single amenity there is to offer.

06:52 Levi McCollum: Yeah, well, I think there are a couple of different questions that are embedded there.

06:56 Levi McCollum: I would start with one. The cost of adding every single amenity at every single bus stop.

07:05 Levi McCollum: That can get pretty costly. Of course, you know, you’re talking about shelters that are anywhere between, you know, I

07:11 Levi McCollum: don’t know with the upcoming tariffs, but you know, we’re talking about 15,000, 20,000, you know, perhaps more depending on

07:20 Levi McCollum: if it’s a custom made or custom designed shelter.

07:23 Levi McCollum: But you know, they’re not cheap and you’re talking about digital displays.

07:29 Levi McCollum: Of course, the bicycle storage racks are, you know, some, you know, a couple thousand or a thousand depending on

07:36 Levi McCollum: the size. So that is the, probably the largest limitation.

07:42 Unknown: Right.

07:42 Levi McCollum: If you have 3,000 bus stops in your network like Palm Trend does, then that can.

07:48 Levi McCollum: I’m sorry, how many is Palm Trend have.

07:50 Levi McCollum: I don’t quite remember now.

07:52 Christian Londono: It’s close to that. It’s close.

07:54 Christian Londono: I think they were like at 2900 because of consolidation and so on, but that’s very close.

08:00 Levi McCollum: Okay. Yeah. I couldn’t remember if I got Li Tran or if I got Palm Tre when I recalled that

08:07 Levi McCollum: 3,000 number, but it’s good that I got the right one.

08:12 Levi McCollum: So, you know, when you’re talking about that many thousands of bus stops, it can really add up.

08:20 Levi McCollum: I think taking the other part of your question regarding how do you decide the amenities and, you know, which

08:27 Levi McCollum: amenities to place and where? This, this sort of basic geographical question for a transit planner, it largely depends on

08:36 Levi McCollum: demand. You know, I think, at least in my experience, the sort of algorithm that I would run through is,

08:43 Levi McCollum: you know, what’s the, what’s the boarding, what’s the alighting?

08:45 Unknown: Right.

08:46 Levi McCollum: Because you have to tease those apart.

08:47 Levi McCollum: You don’t want to look at it as total activity because the amenities that you may place at a bus

08:54 Levi McCollum: stop would differ depending on the boarding demand or the alighting demand.

09:00 Levi McCollum: For example, just to make that concrete, if I have a bunch of people that are boarding at this stop,

09:05 Levi McCollum: then I might have seating.

09:07 Unknown: Right.

09:07 Levi McCollum: If a bunch of people are alighting at this stop, I might have a trash can over the seating.

09:12 Unknown: Right.

09:12 Levi McCollum: Or I might have both.

09:13 Unknown: Right.

09:13 Levi McCollum: A trash can and, and the seating.

09:17 Levi McCollum: But, you know, if it’s just alighting, let’s just say we heavily waited on lighting.

09:21 Levi McCollum: Then, you know, maybe there’s, there’s not any, you know, passenger waiting type amenity at all.

09:30 Unknown: Right.

09:30 Levi McCollum: If it.

09:31 Christian Londono: Right.

09:32 Levi McCollum: You know, this is somewhat rare, but let’s just say it’s outside of a big, you know, shopping center perhaps,

09:39 Levi McCollum: and people are only getting off at that bus stop, then you really wouldn’t want to shelter there.

09:44 Levi McCollum: So you do have to look at the boarding and alighting and kind of go from there.

09:50 Levi McCollum: You know, a lot of it depends on right of way, what’s available.

09:53 Levi McCollum: Are there sidewalks that are going to connect? Do you have drainage or some water retention nearby? Some of these

10:01 Levi McCollum: projects can turn into a drainage project, more than just a bus stop amenities project.

10:07 Levi McCollum: So there are lots of things to consider, and I’m sure there are more that I’m missing that you’re going

10:12 Levi McCollum: to fill in the gaps here, but those are the few that come to my mind.

10:16 Christian Londono: Yeah, I think that the bigger one there and one that you start with is, you know, looking at the

10:24 Christian Londono: demand, looking at, you know, how people are using the stops, and we’re talking about prioritization.

10:31 Christian Londono: Right. Like it’s, you know, you, you explained it.

10:36 Christian Londono: It’s not financial, financially feasible to just buy all the amenities for every single stop.

10:43 Christian Londono: A. Not just. I’m sorry.

10:47 Levi McCollum: I wish.

10:48 Christian Londono: Yeah, I wish.

10:48 Levi McCollum: I wish agencies had that type of money to be able to.

10:53 Christian Londono: Yes. No, it’s. But also it’s that, you know, cost effective.

10:58 Christian Londono: Right. Like, you’re looking at the utilization because if you were to even have the money and put them everywhere,

11:04 Christian Londono: but they’re being underutilized, like, the people are not really using them because, you know, some stops kind of like

11:13 Christian Londono: with the overall service are coverage and access more than ridership.

11:21 Unknown: Right.

11:21 Christian Londono: Like, there’s not a lot of people that use them, but there are some people that use them.

11:25 Christian Londono: And then, you know, you’re looking at bus stop spacing.

11:28 Christian Londono: So it makes sense to have a bus stop in a given location.

11:31 Christian Londono: And maybe it’s not, you know, there’s not a lot of activity there.

11:34 Christian Londono: So would you put all these amenities that are not being used and spend all this money and then on

11:40 Christian Londono: top of that, maintain it? You know, some.

11:44 Christian Londono: Some bus stops have landscaping around it, and then part of the maintenance of the stop is actually completing some

11:50 Christian Londono: landscaping work to make sure the trees or bushes or things like that are not overgrowing or maybe covering the

11:57 Christian Londono: bus stop sign. So it would not make sense to put infrastructure in places with low utilization.

12:04 Christian Londono: So I agree. I mean, one of the first stop places to start is with the demand in terms of

12:12 Christian Londono: how it’s being used. And also take a look at the, you know, the weather.

12:17 Unknown: Right.

12:18 Christian Londono: Like, there’s a, you know, shelters that you installed in certain locations.

12:24 Christian Londono: And then you know, the design when it comes, how you’re going to build it and what you’re going to

12:29 Christian Londono: put in there. A lot of it has to do with the weather.

12:33 Christian Londono: And then you know what, infrastructure is going to be a better experience for people.

12:38 Christian Londono: So I know in places that are very cold, you know, you try to do something that is more enclosed,

12:43 Christian Londono: that not a lot of wind is going to get in, so people can, you know, stay warmer as they’re

12:47 Christian Londono: waiting. And in contrast, in places that are very hot, you have it very open.

12:54 Christian Londono: And there is, you know, sometimes there’s like puncher holes on the panels and so on, so more air can

13:00 Christian Londono: circulate and then keep people a little cooler.

13:04 Christian Londono: So definitely the demand. And also take a look at the other piece that you said is right away.

13:11 Christian Londono: And that’s one thing, you know, I remember when talking with passengers and people sometimes submitting requests because another way

13:22 Christian Londono: of prioritizing these amenities is looking at the requests.

13:25 Christian Londono: You have people that call customer service and they make a recommendation.

13:30 Christian Londono: And maybe you bunch, I hope once you know where one stop you have this, all these bunch of, you

13:37 Christian Londono: know, suggestions with different people have said, we won’t see the.

13:40 Christian Londono: We want sitting, we want a bench.

13:41 Christian Londono: We want a bench. Then, you know, when it comes to prioritizing amenities, I would do my best to deliver

13:46 Christian Londono: a bench where people are asking for one, but the other piece is the right away.

13:51 Christian Londono: And you mentioned that. And that’s a big reality for transit planners around the country because people might want the

13:59 Christian Londono: shelter and there might be a good level of utilization.

14:03 Christian Londono: But if there is no physical right away, like, you know, the a, you know, private properties all the way

14:10 Christian Londono: to the sidewalk and, you know, you’re looking at a very narrow sidewalk and there’s just no physical space to

14:17 Christian Londono: put, you know, amenities while keeping it ADA compliant and not blocking the sidewalk for wheelchairs and so on.

14:25 Christian Londono: It just becomes very difficult and you have to get kind of creative in terms of overcoming that.

14:31 Christian Londono: But those are some of the things that come in mind when it comes to prioritizing amenities.

14:38 Christian Londono: Let me ask you a question, Levi.

14:40 Christian Londono: Can you think. Yeah, and I have some ideas, but I want to hear from you.

14:44 Christian Londono: How do you circumvent a. Or some ideas to circumvent right away constrained bus stops where you might want to

14:53 Christian Londono: put a shelter. What comes to your mind?

14:56 Levi McCollum: Yeah, you know, this one is a tough one because it is much more cumbersome to be able to make

15:01 Levi McCollum: a bus stop that you, you know, Fits those ADA compliant thresholds.

15:07 Levi McCollum: But the big one is, you know, you got to get an easement.

15:10 Levi McCollum: You have to talk to property owners.

15:12 Levi McCollum: Perhaps it’s moving the bus stop altogether to an area that has a little bit more right of way.

15:18 Levi McCollum: You know, you really have to work with your departments of transportation to be able to see where your rights

15:23 Levi McCollum: of way line are. And you know, just having a sense of what the bus, bus stop looks like on

15:30 Levi McCollum: the ground. I can think of several examples in which, you know, maybe we had a bus stop that was

15:35 Levi McCollum: on, on the near side and, and we had a lot of utilization near side of an intersection.

15:41 Levi McCollum: That is we, we had a lot of utilization at the bus stop and we thought, well, you know, there

15:46 Levi McCollum: we’re getting these requests and clearly people are using the bus stop.

15:49 Levi McCollum: Can we move it far side?

15:51 Unknown: Right?

15:51 Levi McCollum: Far side of the, the intersection has some advantages over the near side.

15:56 Levi McCollum: You know, both have their pros and cons, but in most cases, I think, you know, transit planners would say

16:02 Levi McCollum: that the, the far side of the intersection is a, is a better place generally.

16:08 Levi McCollum: And you know, we. Would we take a look at the, the far side.

16:12 Levi McCollum: Hey, is there more right of way over here? Can we put it into the beginning of a right turn

16:16 Levi McCollum: lane? And you know, I know that can be hit or miss with some agencies.

16:20 Levi McCollum: Some agencies do that, some agencies don’t.

16:24 Levi McCollum: But you really have to look at the bus stop at a very individual level.

16:29 Levi McCollum: And if you kind of zoom out and try to look at a cluster of bus stops for bus stop

16:34 Levi McCollum: spacing, you know, that’s a good thing, right? You need to make sure that your bus stops are not too

16:40 Levi McCollum: closely spaced to one another. But it does take planning happening at that individual bus stop level.

16:49 Levi McCollum: So you really need to be able to move throughout each of those contexts to plan well.

16:56 Levi McCollum: So I think I just touched on your question, hopefully answered it.

16:59 Levi McCollum: But I think easements, in short.

17:02 Christian Londono: Yeah, and that’s exactly what I was going to say also is Eastman, and you know, something that you just

17:08 Christian Londono: said, it’s really important as well, which is when you are addressing bus stop amenities for your system and your

17:19 Christian Londono: bus stops, you don’t, do you, you have to do it one by one.

17:24 Christian Londono: Like every stop is its own project.

17:27 Christian Londono: And a lot of times when you’re working with an engineering team, you know, you have to design one bus

17:34 Christian Londono: stop, it’s one bus stop. And, and, and you could have a lot that are very similar, especially if they’re

17:40 Christian Londono: in the same, along the same road, they tend to have A very similar right away and, and when you,

17:46 Christian Londono: you know, finish designing a stop and then you go to the other one, they might be very similar, but

17:50 Christian Londono: also they could be very different because of what you just said is, you know, the right of way.

17:54 Christian Londono: But also when it comes to the easement, is being able to work with the easements and then the different

18:00 Christian Londono: stakeholders. So if you have some stops where you want to add amenities, you know, you want to make sure

18:07 Christian Londono: it’s ADA compliant, so you have that boarding lighting pad for ada and then hopefully you have, you’re going to

18:13 Christian Londono: put a shelter, which it takes a whole bunch of space when you actually look into it and look at

18:20 Christian Londono: all the dimensions even for a small shelter.

18:24 Christian Londono: So you have to work with those partners, those jurisdictions.

18:27 Christian Londono: It could be the local municipality maybe, you know, if you work in a county agency, you’re working with that

18:35 Christian Londono: specific city where you have the bus stop and then they’re planning teams and a lot of times they can

18:41 Christian Londono: help you, they can provide help talking with a private property owners and then suggesting easements.

18:47 Christian Londono: And then there’s benefits for those private property owners when it comes to the Eastmans, because transit is bringing activity

18:56 Christian Londono: to their property. So sometimes if it’s residential, it could be, you know, access for people to live there to

19:04 Christian Londono: public transit as a way to commute.

19:07 Christian Londono: If it’s a private business, it could be bringing business, it could be bringing money.

19:12 Christian Londono: You know, if there’s a Walmart, if there’s, you know, one of those stores, they, and you know, you’re transporting

19:18 Christian Londono: people that are going there to spend money, that’s a good way of having a conversation.

19:23 Christian Londono: So it could take time, just working one stop and working one deal and one easement, it could take some

19:30 Christian Londono: time to be able to get it up and running.

19:33 Christian Londono: But you know, again, we’re talking about prioritization.

19:37 Christian Londono: So if you have a stop that is really right now a pain point for your riders because there’s a

19:42 Christian Londono: bunch of people waiting there, maybe the frequency of your bus, which is another point of consideration for prioritization, which

19:51 Christian Londono: is the headway, if it’s 30 minutes, 45 minutes headway.

19:55 Christian Londono: So people usually wait for a good amount of time and there’s no amenity whatsoever, that becomes an important project

20:03 Christian Londono: and working with those jurisdictions to try to make something happen for your riders.

20:08 Christian Londono: Yeah, it’s definitely something that will help.

20:13 Christian Londono: So breaking it into steps, you know, planning for amenities and I think one of the things that we said

20:19 Christian Londono: is you start with that needs assessment.

20:24 Christian Londono: So where do we need in what type of amenity is it, you know, trash can, Is it a shelter,

20:30 Christian Londono: is it a bench, Is it, you know, what type of amenity? And then the next step we said, and

20:37 Christian Londono: even for this situation where you might have, might not have to right away, is collaborating with urban planners from

20:44 Christian Londono: different jurisdictions and different local governments.

20:48 Christian Londono: So they’re involved. Right. And I think that this should be something that we always practice, which is getting those

20:57 Christian Londono: stakeholders for even those individual locations involved.

21:00 Christian Londono: So even if it’s a city or if it’s a business, you know, kind of like let them know that

21:05 Christian Londono: that is happening. And then going back to the third one, and I think that’s.

21:10 Christian Londono: That was your answer of to why we don’t have amenities everywhere, which is the budget, you know, how much

21:18 Christian Londono: money do we have and where is it coming from? And I would add another one is, is which contracts

21:23 Christian Londono: do we have in place? So what contractual instruments do we have ready to start buying shelters and, and actually

21:30 Christian Londono: having somebody install them and all these things? So that’s some of the steps that I can think of when

21:36 Christian Londono: you break it down into steps.

21:38 Christian Londono: Anything else do you want to add to that, Levi?

21:42 Levi McCollum: I think the only thing that I would add there is if you can get something in your land development

21:50 Levi McCollum: code about building bus stop amenities by those private property owners whenever they’re doing any sort of work on that

22:01 Levi McCollum: site, on that parcel of land.

22:04 Levi McCollum: You know, maybe you can’t get a shelter every single time, but maybe you can at least get an ADA

22:09 Levi McCollum: pad out there or a larger, you know, landing pad for the front and the rear doors.

22:15 Levi McCollum: You know, that that could be one area that you could work to improve your, you know, your communication with

22:23 Levi McCollum: the, you know, improve your communication with the planners in your community.

22:28 Levi McCollum: I think that that’s worked for Palmtran and Litran when I both worked in each of those agencies.

22:36 Levi McCollum: And I know it’s a common practice here in Florida to be able to get the private developers to pay

22:44 Levi McCollum: for some of those amenities and those improvements to the bus stop because potentially the folks that are going to

22:52 Levi McCollum: those establishments are going to be using the bus stop.

22:55 Levi McCollum: So that’s the other thing that I wanted to throw in there.

22:59 Christian Londono: Yeah, you actually, that’s a really good one.

23:02 Christian Londono: I think that working with those jurisdictions and developers, and that’s a condition of approval for their permit when they’re

23:10 Christian Londono: going through their permitting process to, you know, build, you know, whatever they’re building a shopping plaza or, you know,

23:18 Christian Londono: residential area is, you know, working with them is, you know, you can, as a transit system and working with

23:26 Christian Londono: those different jurisdictions, put as a condition of approval to build a bus stop or provide an easement for a

23:34 Christian Londono: bus stop. So even if there’s no bus stop that they’re developing for the transit agency, they’re giving an easement

23:40 Christian Londono: so in the future it can be built.

23:41 Christian Londono: So sometimes you request those not where you currently have service, but where you could potentially have service in the

23:47 Christian Londono: future. But also if you have service and you have a popular route there and there’s good ridership activity, and

24:00 Christian Londono: in the past you were not able to provide amenities, then that’s a good instrument to kind of request.

24:07 Christian Londono: Put as a condition of approval, okay, this development is going to be approved, but you have to, as a

24:12 Christian Londono: developer, provide these type of amenities at this location.

24:19 Christian Londono: So that’s definitely a great way to get some amenities out there and get.

24:23 Christian Londono: And wins. Now, the last thing I’m going to add to that, and I almost miss on mentioning this or

24:29 Christian Londono: the last couple of things. One is planning for who’s going to maintain it, because what happens a lot of

24:37 Christian Londono: the times is that some developers put bus shelters or bus stop infrastructure themselves.

24:45 Christian Londono: Some municipalities also do their own, you know, they go out and put some amenities for the city, and sometimes

24:52 Christian Londono: they, they look at where you have a bus stop and they go and put something in there or they

24:56 Christian Londono: even places. Yeah. Or, or sometimes in places where you don’t have a bus stop.

25:03 Christian Londono: And then now you have people congregating or waiting for the service under this shelter or what looks to be

25:10 Christian Londono: a bus stop. There’s no bus stop sign.

25:13 Christian Londono: But.

25:13 Levi McCollum: Right.

25:14 Christian Londono: Because there is bus stop infrastructure, then they feel that, you know, they, they, they, they perceive it as a,

25:21 Christian Londono: you know, transit stop. And then that creates issues because of course the bus is going to be driving by

25:27 Christian Londono: and not stopping because it’s not official bus stop for the system.

25:30 Christian Londono: So being, you know, able to coordinate with those jurisdictions and understand who is responsible for the maintenance is critical.

25:38 Christian Londono: Because it’s not just about putting this infrastructure up, is who is going to maintain it.

25:44 Christian Londono: What if somebody, you know, runs it over and there’s shattered glass or there’s, you know, trash cans are over,

25:52 Christian Londono: you know, flowing, who is going to maintain it? And the expectation automatically is, well, the transit agency.

26:00 Christian Londono: But if you ask the transit agency didn’t request those amenities or didn’t even build them, then why are you

26:07 Christian Londono: responsible? So, so that coordination and understanding who is going to be maintaining what and working with those municipalities and

26:14 Christian Londono: different stakeholders is another planning a step that I think is important to Keep in mind and to have it

26:24 Christian Londono: clear, because sometimes it could be where some municipalities maintain their own bus stop amenities, they have their team, you

26:32 Christian Londono: know, public works go out, you know, maybe twice or three times a week and cleaning the trash cans and

26:39 Christian Londono: maybe, you know, once a month or once a quarter, they kind of like power wash to stop and all

26:45 Christian Londono: that. So that’s awesome. But that has to be kind of like in paper so you don’t get those complaints.

26:51 Christian Londono: And people, you know, being upset about a bus stop that you didn’t sign up to maintain and you would

26:58 Christian Londono: not design the way it was designed.

26:59 Christian Londono: But you’re the transit agency, you get kind of like you by default become responsible for it.

27:08 Christian Londono: The other one that I was going to throw in here, and this is, I’ll pass it back to you,

27:13 Christian Londono: but is the flexibility in design in your contracts.

27:21 Christian Londono: So sometimes if you have a contract for bus shelters and it’s one size and one vendor, one design, I

27:31 Christian Londono: doubt that one size, one design is going to be able to address all your different bus stops and the

27:39 Christian Londono: different needs. So one recommendation I will give transit planners today and anybody that is listening, if you’re working on

27:47 Christian Londono: bust up amenities, if you’re going out for a contract, make sure that you, you have flexibility, that you have

27:53 Christian Londono: different sizes, that you have different options to choose from.

27:57 Christian Londono: So it’s going to match the different scenarios that you will be more likely to find in your transit system.

28:04 Christian Londono: That way you can actually make those amenities happen versus being constricted by one design, one contract that is not

28:13 Christian Londono: addressing all your needs.

28:17 Levi McCollum: Yeah, 100%. I mean, you do have to have that flexibility in design.

28:23 Levi McCollum: Is it going to be a slim or a narrow shelter versus a larger, maybe a little more spacious shelter?

28:30 Levi McCollum: What type of wayside signage are you going to have? Is it something that needs to be up high for

28:36 Levi McCollum: vandalism purposes? Can you have it down low so it’s more legible? Yeah.

28:41 Levi McCollum: Lot to consider there for sure.

28:45 Christian Londono: Yeah. That, that you just said about vandalism, that’s a big one too.

28:49 Christian Londono: You know, sometimes glass panels, like there’s some shelters that are very nice looking.

28:55 Christian Londono: You know, the design is, is, is beautiful.

28:57 Christian Londono: But if they’re in an area they’re, they’re prone to vandalism, then it’s going to be thousands of dollars in

29:06 Christian Londono: repairs and all that. And then at that point for that shelter, you need something that is kind of like,

29:14 Christian Londono: you know, aluminum frames or, you know, more vandal resistant.

29:18 Christian Londono: And maybe they coating, they have a, there’s a coating that I know that exists today to anti graffiti.

29:25 Christian Londono: So if somebody was to spray graffiti on it, I think it’s easy to clean is not that it prevents

29:30 Christian Londono: the graffiti to be done, but it’s kind of like washable.

29:33 Christian Londono: It makes in a way that, that you’re going to be able to get rid of it.

29:37 Christian Londono: So things like that is important to consider when you’re going about that.

29:42 Christian Londono: And you know, when we talk about bust of amenities and we just talk about how to plan for them

29:48 Christian Londono: and describe some of the amenities, but why are we doing bust of amenities and why is it important? And

29:54 Christian Londono: it ties back as we said at the beginning, is the writer’s experience.

29:59 Christian Londono: And there’s a way Levi and I want you to say that you describe bus stops.

30:03 Christian Londono: So talk to me, how do you describe the bus stops and why is it important, you know that we

30:08 Christian Londono: talk about enhancing the bus stop amenities for the riders experience?

30:15 Levi McCollum: Yeah, I mean it really boils down to the customer experience.

30:20 Levi McCollum: I think this is often overlooked and we focus, you know, perhaps unnecessarily on some of the the other ancillary

30:33 Levi McCollum: ideas around public transportation and not enough on the bus stop.

30:40 Levi McCollum: It does get overlooked and in fact I’m not sure if this is still out there, but there was a

30:47 Levi McCollum: blog that talked about the sorry bus stops in the United States or in North America.

30:55 Levi McCollum: And I think that just because we thought hey, we could go put up some bus stops and people requested

31:01 Levi McCollum: them and let’s just put up poll up and assign maybe someone handmade a bench and they put it at

31:09 Levi McCollum: the bus stop and it ends up on one of these blogs, these ugliest bus stops or sorry, it’s bus

31:14 Levi McCollum: stops list. It doesn’t look great.

31:19 Levi McCollum: It’s not a good reflection of the agency.

31:22 Levi McCollum: And the bus stop is the gateway to the system.

31:24 Levi McCollum: It is the way that you access the service.

31:28 Levi McCollum: You know, even if the service is very infrequent, you know, an hour headway.

31:34 Levi McCollum: I think as you mentioned earlier, the bus stop amenities become ever more important.

31:39 Levi McCollum: As your frequency increases, your amenities become less important.

31:43 Unknown: Right.

31:43 Levi McCollum: Because you spend less time waiting.

31:46 Levi McCollum: So these are all things to consider.

31:49 Levi McCollum: But in the end it comes down to your folks are accessing your system at this particular point.

31:56 Levi McCollum: That point is a reflection of you.

31:58 Levi McCollum: Just like the bus operator is a reflection of the transit agency.

32:02 Levi McCollum: Just like the bus and the bus’s interior, its exterior are a reflection of the transit agency, your headquarters is

32:09 Levi McCollum: a reflection of your agency. Unfortunately or fortunately, you’ve got, you know, 1,000, 2,000, 3,000, you know, if You’re a

32:19 Levi McCollum: super large agency. Maybe you’ve got 8, 10,000 of these things to be able to maintain properly.

32:26 Levi McCollum: You got, you have to dedicate the resources to it because if they end up on one of those lists,

32:32 Levi McCollum: then it just reinforces this narrative like, oh, you know, public transit is used by such and such people.

32:39 Levi McCollum: And that’s not what we want.

32:41 Levi McCollum: You know, we, we want it to have a different air to it.

32:46 Levi McCollum: It needs to be represented well.

32:48 Levi McCollum: And you know, just to make one final point on this, folks are driving by every day.

32:56 Levi McCollum: The folks that are not taking the system, right.

32:59 Levi McCollum: They’re in cars. What do they see? They see your bus and they see your bus stop.

33:04 Levi McCollum: So I would say keep those two things in mind.

33:07 Christian Londono: Yeah. You know, something. Damn. Wow.

33:10 Christian Londono: You said two things that really got me excited, Levi.

33:13 Christian Londono: One is, and I remember when we were working on the bus shelter project, you know, expansion and replacement project,

33:22 Christian Londono: we work on that at Palm Trend to, you know, replace a lot of the aging, you know, past the

33:29 Christian Londono: useful life shelters and then be able to add new ones.

33:32 Christian Londono: And one of the things we would say is that this project is so important because it’s very visual for

33:37 Christian Londono: the community. Right. Like, even if people don’t ride the public transit system, you create this very nice bus stops

33:42 Christian Londono: and people notice it, like they’re driving by and they would see it, they would be like, wow, that, that’s

33:46 Christian Londono: nice. Like, it makes your transit system, system more visible.

33:52 Christian Londono: So definitely it’s something to keep in mind.

33:55 Christian Londono: It’s a good representation for the system.

33:57 Christian Londono: It also makes me think about, you know, increasing ridership in people that might be a.

34:03 Christian Londono: Trying a transit and maybe some kids that are going to school and then they’re, they’re now trying to figure

34:11 Christian Londono: it out how to, you know, get around.

34:13 Christian Londono: And then they go and try transit maybe for the first time and if they have a good experience.

34:19 Christian Londono: And today if you’re in a shelter, if you’re sitting and hopefully you’re, you’re comfortable where you’re waiting for the

34:25 Christian Londono: bus. Everybody has their phone with them.

34:28 Christian Londono: So they’re on their phone, you know, watching TikTok or doing the Instagram.

34:32 Christian Londono: And then the bus showed up and then they got on the bus and you know, that has wi fi

34:36 Christian Londono: and it’s a good experience. They’re going to keep doing it.

34:40 Christian Londono: But I know the same is, or the opposite is cases for when people have a really bad experience, especially

34:48 Christian Londono: waiting for the system. And you know, I’ve been in that situation waiting for the bus at stops with Nothing.

34:55 Christian Londono: Just a pole on the ground.

34:57 Christian Londono: And, man, you cannot even look at your phone.

35:00 Christian Londono: Like, if it’s a very sunny day, like, the glare doesn’t even let you see the screen, and then you’re

35:05 Christian Londono: sweating and you’re hot and there’s nowhere to hide.

35:09 Christian Londono: Like, there’s nothing to hide. There’s nowhere to hide from the elements.

35:13 Christian Londono: So what makes you think is, first, I cannot do this again.

35:18 Christian Londono: Like, I’m not going to be doing this.

35:20 Christian Londono: I have to figure it out.

35:21 Christian Londono: Either a different place to wait for the bus, or I’m going to get a scooter, or I’m going to

35:26 Christian Londono: pay for Uber. It forced you to look for other ways to get around because it’s just so difficult, you

35:33 Christian Londono: know, to wait under those conditions for, for the bus service.

35:37 Christian Londono: So definitely it’s important to keep in mind, you know, the, you know, how it represents the system and how

35:45 Christian Londono: it impacts the. The customer experience.

35:48 Christian Londono: And the last thing to say about this is that I would encourage agencies to also have fun with this

35:55 Christian Londono: when possible, involving art in public places and just doing artistic or theme shelters.

36:04 Christian Londono: So you might recall Levi, at Palm Trend, we had the opportunity to work at a couple of bus shelters

36:13 Christian Londono: that were built right next to what was originally the ballpark of the Palm Beaches, which was a baseball field.

36:23 Christian Londono: And then, you know, our bus service, or pumpkin service was providing, of course, routes and, you know, way to

36:32 Christian Londono: get to the stadium. And boat shelters were designed, you know, were themed around baseball.

36:38 Christian Londono: So the benches were like half of baseball and, like, the back panel had cut out.

36:43 Christian Londono: You know, baseball players just, you know, with a bat and maybe catching a ball.

36:51 Christian Londono: So that was really cool because, you know, going back to people driving by and seeing it, even if they

36:56 Christian Londono: don’t regularly ride transit, they can see that riding transit to the games as an option.

37:02 Christian Londono: And it’s a fun way to, you know, make it artistic and, you know, provide the amenities.

37:09 Christian Londono: So 100%. Can you think of some other, you know, theme shelters that you know, of or other places or

37:17 Christian Londono: systems that have gone this route with going crazy with shelters and doing some nice theme locations?

37:27 Levi McCollum: Well, I can’t think of any off the top of my head that are, you know, quite as nice as

37:32 Levi McCollum: that one. Give a shout out there to my Route 3.

37:36 Levi McCollum: That’s the palm trend Route 3 here on Military that goes right by those ballparks.

37:42 Levi McCollum: And also a shout out to Steve Anderson, who both of us worked with at Palm Tren.

37:48 Levi McCollum: You did. You worked with him for quite a bit longer than I did.

37:51 Levi McCollum: But, you know, I think he was instrumental in that effort for that bus shelter.

37:58 Levi McCollum: You know, I don’t have any other examples that just pop out to me right now.

38:03 Levi McCollum: I think the art in public places and when I lived in Dallas, you know, several DART stations, this is

38:12 Levi McCollum: not bus stop, this is more rail.

38:14 Levi McCollum: But a lot of those stations had art in public places, you know, from local Dallas artists.

38:19 Levi McCollum: And it was always cool to see that.

38:22 Levi McCollum: You know, I think on the, maybe the other end, I remember when you and I were in Pittsburgh and

38:29 Levi McCollum: you know, Pittsburgh has some really nice stops and I love their service overall.

38:33 Levi McCollum: But do you remember being on the side of the road at the Duquesne Incline when we were wedged in

38:40 Levi McCollum: between the forest essentially for, you know, that goes up to Mount Washington and right there along the road was

38:50 Levi McCollum: our bus stop. So, you know, you didn’t really have a lot of right away to work with there.

38:56 Levi McCollum: I don’t know what they would have done for a bus stop to make that any better, but it felt

39:01 Levi McCollum: very uncomfortable being that close to the road.

39:04 Levi McCollum: But really, to answer your question, no, I don’t have any other examples at the top of my mind right

39:10 Levi McCollum: now. Do you have any others?

39:12 Christian Londono: Well, you know, something you mentioned before about the blog with the stops I’ve seen in New York, if you

39:20 Christian Londono: look on YouTube or any of the social media platforms, there’s videos where they show the top stations and the

39:31 Christian Londono: worst also with water leaking and, you know, rats and all kinds of bad things.

39:37 Christian Londono: But also they have very nice ones.

39:39 Christian Londono: You know, the one that is very close to the one World Trade center that looks very futuristic on the

39:45 Christian Londono: outside. I think it’s one of the, the main stations.

39:50 Christian Londono: You know, it’s very beautiful. The, the design inside and outside is just outstanding.

39:56 Christian Londono: So there’s definitely a lot of examples around the country, different systems that have gone to the extent of incorporating

40:03 Christian Londono: art and just making it so much nicer for everybody that is using it.

40:08 Christian Londono: And one thing I want to say too, that also speaks about the needs for amenities.

40:14 Christian Londono: And you mentioned in that blog like somebody just building a bench and putting it somewhere.

40:19 Christian Londono: There was an article that came out in la, there was like this, like a known person that was also

40:27 Christian Londono: building benches and putting them around in a lot of stops.

40:31 Christian Londono: And they got up to, you know, I think close to a hundred of them throughout the system.

40:36 Christian Londono: They were just built them themselves and putting them up at different stops so people could just sit and improve

40:43 Christian Londono: their waiting experience. So talk about, you know, the community taking up to themselves to, to provide some, you know,

40:51 Christian Londono: Bust Up Amenities. But it just only highlights the importance for them.

40:56 Levi McCollum: Absolutely. Yeah. And it’s Streets Blog, Streets Blog usa.

40:59 Levi McCollum: I couldn’t think of it earlier so I had to look it up.

41:01 Levi McCollum: But shout out to them. They have a lot of good content.

41:05 Christian Londono: Yeah, Levi, there’s, there’s definitely a lot of examples of blogs and you know, a lot of writers just sharing

41:12 Christian Londono: their experience riding the transit system.

41:16 Christian Londono: And one of the things they always highlight is the infrastructure, starting from the stops to, you know, the experience

41:22 Christian Londono: of actually using the system. So, you know, thank you for sharing that blog with everybody listening in and I’m

41:29 Christian Londono: pretty sure they’ve experienced some of those blogs themselves.

41:32 Christian Londono: So if you have one that you would like us to take a look at or you will recommend, please,

41:37 Christian Londono: by all means share it with us.

41:39 Christian Londono: And on that note, I just want to close this episode.

41:42 Christian Londono: It’s been a lot of fun, Levi, discussing with you Bust Up Amenities.

41:47 Christian Londono: It’s, it’s really important when it comes to the writer’s experience and as we all work on, you know, getting

41:55 Christian Londono: more riders into our systems is definitely one of those key elements to include into your, you know, ridership strategy.

42:08 Christian Londono: So definitely want to encourage our listeners to think about their local bus stops and think about potential improvements.

42:17 Christian Londono: Look at technology, new technology that is coming out there for passenger waiting amenities.

42:23 Christian Londono: And when you go to the different conferences, you get to experience that and see some implementations in other places

42:31 Christian Londono: around the country. I tell you Levi, I’m attending the APTA Mobility Conference in Austin and Cap Metro has, you

42:42 Christian Londono: know, really good a amount of amenities out there in their system and something that I notice is that they

42:50 Christian Londono: strategically put the panels on the shelters depending on how this, the the sun is is located and where the,

42:59 Christian Londono: the bus stop is located to provide that shelter.

43:02 Christian Londono: So great, great discussion. Today I want to invite our listeners to listen to our next episode.

43:07 Christian Londono: We’ll releasing episodes every Monday, so please stay tuned and thank you for your following Stop requested and listening to

43:17 Christian Londono: us and Stop Requested podcast.