Joel Rey, Benesch’s Transit Services Director, Reveals the People, Projects, and Purpose Fueling His Success (Replay)

Stop Requested. Welcome to Stop Requested, the podcast where we discuss everything transit. I’m your co-host, Levi McCollum, Director of Operations at ETA Transit. And I’m your co-host, Christian Londono, Senior Customer Success Manager at ETA Transit.

Welcome back to Stop Requested. Christian, how are you doing today? Doing excellent. Uh, very excited about, uh, today’s episode.

Yeah. This one is amazing, one that I’m… I’ve been looking forward to ever since we got it on the books. Uh, today were gonna be speaking with Joel Rey, who’s the Director of Transit Services and Principal Associate at Benesch. Joel, how are you doing? I’m doing great, guys. How are you? Yeah, doing very well. This is, uh, really exciting. You know, I know you’ve been in the industry for 30 years and, you know, worked with agencies all over the country, so

I can’t wait to see what we get into with this conversation. Excellent. Let’s get started. And, and agencies of, uh, different sizes with different modes, I mean, the, the, the stories and, uh, different topics of conversation that we can touch on, it, it… they’re just very broad, uh, of course. But, uh, first of all, we, we wanna start learning more about you and, and for our listeners to learn about your career. Um, so if you could start by giving us an overview of your career in transit planning, how do you get started, and how do you got to where you are today?

Yeah. Okay. That’s a great w- place to start, Christian. Um, actually, I, I go back, uh, about 36 years, um, May of 1989.

Uh, I was a junior, uh, at the University of South Florida in Tampa and, um, at that time, I was in the civil engineering program, uh, working on my d- my undergraduate degree, and I was gonna go into structures, build buildings. And, uh, at that time, my junior year, I was going through the remaining, uh, classes that I had to take, and, um, before I got into the final part of my program and one of my electives

I had outstanding was a, a transportation course. And so I took that with a gentleman who had, uh, come over from University of Wisconsin. His name was Dr. Alan Cobb, and just an incredible professor, one of the best

I had in my entire tenure at USF. And he must have had some transit in his background because he made the course fun. It, it was about traffic and transportation and road design. I, I got to do cut-and-fill calculations on, on dirt and, uh, designed a, um, major intersection that had competing superelevations by hand. It, it was a cool course. But he spent a lot of the time on transit planning and analysis, and by the time I finished that class, just one semester, I was hooked. And I, I knew that I wanted to get into transit but I had no idea how or, or where to go ’cause I’d never experienced transit, never even ridden a bus up to that point in my life. And, uh, Dr. Cobb, he saw my enthusiasm, saw that I had a knack for the work, and he put a good word in for me with a new research center that had just started up the prior year in 1988 called the Center for Urban Transportation Research. Oh, wow. And it was located at University of South

Florida’s engineering department in three offices. And, uh, he put me in touch with them. They had a need for a couple of new interns. And so I, I went and interviewed and, uh, and I was fortunate enough to get selected by Gary Brosh, the director at that time, the initial director, and started with CUTR in, in, uh, 1989. I was the 13th employee and, uh, stayed there a little over 13 years. And by the time I left, I was, uh… started out as an undergraduate research assistant and

I was the transit program manager, um, when I left in 2002. And it was at that time that I got recruited away, ironically, by one of my colleagues who had been with CUTR until 1995, Bill Ball. Um, he had gone on to Tindale Oliver, a, a planning and engineering firm in Tampa and, uh, a small one at the time. It was

20-some-odd people, and he brought me over. Three people were in the transit program at that time and I was, I was the third one. And, uh, so I, I stayed at Tindale Oliver for close to 20 years and helped grow, uh, the transit program with Bill from, from three folks to over 25 by the time, uh, it came around that, uh, we were, uh, up to 75 folks. This was about 2021. So, at that time,

I was part of the firm’s management team and, uh, helped facilitate the sale of the firm. Uh, we, we’d gotten to the point where the first-generation ownership was looking to, to retire and, and so we, we sold the firm and went through a process. And fortunately for me, uh, Benesch was, uh, the firm that ended up buying us. And, uh, so we became Benesch later that year, in December of 2021, and I’ve been with them since. And, uh, so that’s, that’s kinda how where I’ve ended up, uh, here today. Wow. Uh, uh, you know, I, I didn’t know you were part of CUTR right from the start, right from the get-go. And, and, and CUTR, till this day, is doing tremendous work for, uh, transit agencies, uh, uh, you know, uh, particularly in Florida. Uh, but that’s, that’s very interesting. Um, i- as a follow-up, you know- Sure.

… y- you, uh, work CUTR and then you, you know, work as a consultant as part as, uh, Tindale Oliver, uh, and, you know, of course, you, you grew to the level of being able to be, um, you know, to, to get the interest from Benesch and, and ultimately get, um, you know, absorbed by Benesch.Um, what would you say were the, the key, uh, experiences or, or maybe projects, uh, that you were part of that time that you think helped you and, and the organization grow to that level, um, you know, to, to be recognized i- in Florida and ultimately to be, uh, absorbed by Benesch?

Sure. Well, I’ll, I’ll tell you that, you know, the, the experiences I had, CUTR was just a great breeding ground for growth. Um, and, and I worked with a lot of smart people, people that have gone on to bigger and better things around the country, um, there. And, and it’s just amazing if you look at the list of alumni that we’ve had, um, graduate kind of from CUTR and, and go on to do other things. But, you know, starting there as a researcher, um, it helped me grow my skills from the ground up. Learning about data, learning about research, learning about how to dig for answers and, and find solutions to problems. And, and that was a great opportunity. And then we became a, a national center for transit research, um, which was a federal designation, so we got to do research around the country and working with other research centers from around the US. That was also beneficial to my growth. Uh, the National Bus Rapid Transit Institute started, um, as a, a joint endeavor between CUTR and Cal Berkeley, uh, back in the late ’90s, and that was when BRT was more of a worldwide phenomenon and not yet here in the US. There was just a couple of systems like the Lynx Limo that had started up that were kind of some BRT elements. So that was just a- again, another great lab room in which to learn. And then getting to work with students. Um, you know, m- there’s two sides to every career. You’ve got the side where you’re doing the work and then you’ve got the side where you’re doing the, kind of the people wrangling and management and, and, uh, you know, delegating tasks to folks that you work with. And, and getting to work with undergrad and grad students at CUTR really helped set me up, um, in terms of what my leadership style is today and, and helped me… well, helped me, forced me to learn empathy and communication to make sure that I got across points successfully. And, and all those skills that, that blossomed there at, at CUTR, at USF, I was able to take with me to Tyndall Oliver and then working with a, you know, small planning and engineering firm that was… at the time, I think we were about 25, 26 folks. And then helping to grow that an, and becoming not just Florida-based but also doing work, especially our transit group, where we were doing work, um, at the time we got purchased by Benesch in 24 states around the country. And that was just with a small group of transit professionals, 25 of us, that were based out of Tampa. Uh, Tampa, Fort Lauderdale, that area. And, and so that was, um, that was one of the things that helped us kind of become enticing to… and, and not just Benesch. Apparently when we first indicated in… and it’s real interesting how they do mergers and acquisitions, but when you put out information about a firm, the first thing that goes out doesn’t even have the firm’s name or, or any identifying information. Um, so we, we were, uh… we had a kind of a pseudonym, Project Blackjack, that, that went out, and when people saw that, then they could request more information and then that’s when you had to get NDAs and things of that nature. But, um, when we were going through that process, we had 85 people asking for our information at the get-go. So we did something right at, at Tyndall Oliver to have that kind of interest and, and I think a lot of it had to do with our, you know, our Florida-centric work. A lot of folks were trying to get into the state. Um, we did a lot of planning and we had a lot of engineering firms that were after us to get that side of the business. And then we did transit, and those were the three things that we had heard from Benesch that they really wanted to do. In fact, it was part of their national initiatives program, um, that they had established back in, in 2020. And so, uh, we met a lot of the needs that they had and, and they provided a culture that was basically Tyndall Oliver on steroids. You know, going from a 75-person firm to one that, at that time, was 750 folks. Um, it was neat that it was still family-oriented and, and really cared about the individual staff like we did.

Um, so it was an easy decision. Um, don’t regret it one bit and, you know, I’ve been with them now three and a half years and I look forward to being with them until, uh, the day I’m, I’m retired and, and at Walmart telling people, “Welcome.”

Well, so you said you’ve been there for three and a half years. Yeah. What do you think sets Benesch apart from some of these other, like, multinational engineering companies? You know, m- we, we know of some of the, the ones with the, the big acronyms, right, in the space? Right.

But, but Benesch maybe not as much. So if you could explain to our audience, w- you know, what, what is Benesch and why is it so different from some of the competitors? Yeah. And, and let me tell you first, I’ll, I’ll say ’cause I got friends throughout the industry at, at a lot of other firms and there are some great firms out there and firms I enjoy working with. Um, and, and I think Benesch fits in well with that mix. But what… you know, we do, in my opinion, stand out and certainly, since I’m in charge of business development for transit, I’ve got to say we stand out, right?

And I’ll tell you the first thing is that it’s a great company. Um, and one of the things that I really liked about becoming Benesch that I did not have with Tyndall Oliver is the comfort of a whole lot of service areas behind me…. that I have access to and can offer to clients. Um, and I’ll give you an example. Uh, we talk about projects. You know, we, we did a project years ago for HART in Tampa, um, Hillsborough

Regional Transit Authority, and they, uh, they were wanting to, um, modernize their operations maintenance facility on 21st Avenue. And we had a really good team with us, we, and, and it was an engineering project, and it’s probably the only time I’ve ever put my, my PE license to good use. Um-

… but we did a really good plan for them to renovate and, and modernize the facility, um, revamp the bus wash, the fueling systems, um, we redesigned the parking and the flows, and we also had a team that was doing their fuel tank because this was, this was probably 2007 to ‘8, um, time period because in 2009, uh, the EPA wanted all of the below ground tr- tanks to be replaced, double-walled or made above ground. And so, we were trying to hit that mark with HART because that was one of the improvements that they needed at the site. And it was just, it was a cool project but I was so reliant on my subs for everything. I was just the coordinator. If we had been Benish at that time, I would say probably at least

60 to 70% of the work we could have done in-house, and that, that’s kinda cool, um, to be able to bring those skillsets like roadway design, bridge work, um,

NEPA, rail, uh, capabilities, asset management, value engineering. All of those things are things that Benish can do and more that we didn’t have it at Tyndall Oliver. So, if I had a client that I was working with on a transit project who said, “Hey, do you do

X?” I’d say, “Hey, I know somebody that can do that.” Now, I, I, with pride I could say, “Oh, yeah. I got staff in Omaha or, you know, Philadelphia or Pittsburgh,” whatever. So, that’s, that’s one of the things I, I like, but I, you know, our biggest strength, uh, and, and what probably sets us apart is our staff. We got an amazing group of folks and, and all of the folks we have in transit, mo- well, the most of them except the ones we’ve hired in the last three years, all came from Tyndall Oliver. They’ve all been together for a long time. Um, in fact, the person who took my role as transit program manager when I took on this role as director of transit services for Benish is Elizabeth Shook. I hired Liz out of college when she was at Stetson, you know, 22 years ago, and have watched her grow that whole time. And now she just got named Florida division manager for Benish, so I’m really proud of her.

It’s like watching your daughter kind of grow up thing. So, we’ve got a great staff and, and we’ve got folks that have worked previously with transit agencies, MPOs, DOTs, um, like me and, and Isela Silva, research centers. Isela’s another graduate from

CUTR who’s with Benish. Um, and this set of skills that we bring to the table for our clients, I think that’s what sets us apart and, and we have folks that have some of the same skills but everybody’s got different additional skillsets and it’s that complementary, um, skillset that we can bring to our clients regardless of what their project is or what their needs are. Um, and, and all of our folks, I will tell you, just like you guys, I, I know you guys believe this, but transit, we truly believe that it is a mobility for all agent. It’s not just a social service like, you know, sometimes you hear when you’re doing work.

Um, they really wanna help our clients succeed whether it’s to improve their services, grow ridership, become more efficient in their operations or utilize their resources better. Our folks really care about the client and wanna see them have a plan that’s gonna help them achieve their, their visions and their desires. So, th- those are the kind of things that I think help set our team apart and, and Benish in the market. That makes a lot of sense. And, you know, I, I know, Joel, that you’ve probably in, in contact with, uh, m- many agencies who have sort of pie-in-the-sky type visions about wanting to do X, Y and Z and, you know, sometimes there are even those exercises where they say, “Don’t consider the budget at all, just what would you imagine?” How do- how do you rein some of the transit agencies back in and say, “Hey, what is, what is practical here? What, what can you actually do?

What can you really accomplish?” And how does that center around the community? Can you describe some of, you know, the work that you’ve done maybe in that regard? Yeah. Um, you know, a lot of times, i- it’s interesting because it’s, it’s not the transit agency or, or s- transit agency staff, it might be management, but a lot of times it’s the community that comes in and has the pie-in-the-sky vision and it’s the transit agency folks who are saying, “Yeah, they got a great vision but they won’t pay for it.”

And so, that’s a, um, an issue that we often encounter and have to address, or sometimes it’s, it’s the difference where the community is saying, “Hey, we’d like to reel back the, um, the cost of this service.” And it’s the transit agency saying, “No, we’re just starting to hit these, you know, goals and we need more resources to just get us over this hump.”

And, um, and, and that’s, you know, that’s, that’s tough. Um, I, I’ll tell you that, you know, talking about, um, the community focus, uh-One of the things that we learn is, uh, to, to deal with that, is everybody’s different, you know? We d- we’ve done a lot of service analyses around the country, we’ve done a lot of plans, um, that have been implemented and, and one of the things that we’ve learned from all of this work, not everybody does everything the same way.

Not every community has the same needs. Uh, not every solution that we can come up with can be universally applied. So, you know, these differences, um, knowing that they’re there is kind of half the battle and helps us better craft how we respond to the community when they’re trying to set a vision that maybe is, is not practical or- or feasible with- with the resources that they’re willing to allocate. Uh, and- and just like the communities are different, um, transit agencies and their services are different as well. And so we need to handle them almost with, you know, in a similar fashion but with a different lens.

Um, because obviously the community is coming at it from- from one point of view and- and the transit agency another, and whether that lens is budget focused or whatever, um, you know, we’ve gotta handle those. So I- I tell you, one of the things we do, and- and this

I- I mentioned to you all earlier before we got started, um, I’m working in North Carolina now for a client in Cabarrus County, North Carolina, and- and we had this exact issue that’s- that’s happening where there’s a- a little bit of a disconnect between what the community thinks of transit and wants it to do and what the transit agencies… And- and there are two.

Um, there’s the fixed route provider and then the demand response provider, and they have a vision of what they need to do to truly enhance mobility in the community. And one of the things that we’re gonna do with their long-range plan is actually create a series of scenarios. So when you say, you know, how do you meet unrealistic expectations? Well, one of the things you do is you put in, you know, whether you call it a needs plan or- or- or, you know, pie-in-the-sky plan, you’d show them, here’s everything that you could possibly do to take transit to the next level in this community within reason. You know, if- if they can’t support rail, you’re not gonna recommend rail but maybe BRT, some express services, new routes, improved frequencies. And you show them that, what it looks like in terms of implementation, in terms of coverage, and in terms of the financial plan. Then you show… And- and a lot of times it’s the transit agency that’s like, “Well, these are the only resources we’re getting and they’re not gonna give us any more, so what can we do with this?” Well, then you do this cost feasible plan, and you show that trajectory and what it looks like. And then you do something in between that says here’s something that I think kind of meets in the middle, helps you achieve some of your dreams and goals, maybe not all of them, but it also gives you a price tag that maybe the powers that be aren’t gonna choke on. And so that’s- that’s typically how- how we, uh, deal with those kind of things.

There’s a- a big educational component, right? I- it’s educating all the different stakeholders. Uh, you know, you’re- you’re coming to assist the transit agency on its purpose to improve transit and access to transit and mobility in the community, but a big, uh, you know, chunk of- of what that is, is- is educational, right? Educating- Oh, yeah. … the boards, educating just altogether all the different stakeholders and kind of get them all on the same page, right? Yeah. Because i- if- if you have a plan as a transit agency, and it could be the best plan for the community as, you know, transit experts, uh, and- and typically those professionals within transit agencies, they have a pretty good idea of what they could do with their services. But if the community is not aligned or they don’t see it the same, right? Like, a community would want all the bells and whistles and premium service and- and one of the things that they don’t consider is just cost. They just want it all to happen magically. But- but that’s- that’s the problem, right? Like, meeting those expectations and- and making sure that everybody’s on the same page. Um, so I- I want to ask you a question that, um, has to do with- with impactful projects, right? When you’re coming to assist some of your clients, they’re not calling you about moving one bus stop or, like, maybe just improving frequency in one route. They- they typically have kind of some transformational projects and- and they need that help, um, in making those, uh, visions into a reality. So my question is, can you think about a- a few projects that you can tell us about that you saw kind of like starting and then being implemented and- and maybe transforming that- that community? Yeah. Yeah, and that- that’s a great question. And

I know why you’re asking it. It’s because I’m old, and so- … I’ve been able to live long enough to actually see some of these projects happen. Um, and- and

I only say that half facetiously because, um, o- one of the things that, uh, that I found in my career, um… And believe it or not, I’m- I’m gonna… This I know Levi will appreciate because, um, he- he actually worked in this community for a while. But one of the reasons why I actually even thought to go to, you know, as people call it, the dark side and get into consulting, um, is because I was working on a TDP for Lee Tran down in Fort Myers-… uh, Florida. And, um, gosh, I, I wanna say this was probably 1998 or ’99 and, um, maybe it was 2000, but anyway, it was a major update and at that time,

Lee Tran and, and the Lee MPO, they, uh, still today, they, they coordinate a lot and, um, Lee Tran was real good about going through the process of updating the MPO committees on their studies.

And so, I was tasked with providing an update to the, um, technical and, and citizens’ committees of the Lee MPO that this particular day. And, um,

I was at their offices and, and the meeting space also served as a library. And one meeting was in the morning and one was in the afternoon, so in between the meetings I was able to have lunch, and then I was walking around the library just killing time, waiting for the next group to come in before I would present, and I found a couple of shelves with a lot of CUTR documents on them. And one of the shelves was a lot of the transit studies that I had actually written and worked on, and they were all covered in dust. It was evident that they were on that shelf since, and untouched since the day they had been placed there. And, and it broke my heart because, you know, that was kind of like, at that time, that was my life’s work and, and it was worthy of being on a shelf in a m- you know, a meeting space at Lee

MPO with dust on it. And I thought, “I have got to do something where I actually get to implement.” And, and that’s a true story and that’s one of the reasons why when, uh, Bill Ball called me, um, a couple of years later and told me to, to come over to Tindale Oliver, I, I actually took him up on it because I felt like this was my opportunity. So, now back to the original question and, and, and why that story resonates is because a, a couple of the projects I’ll talk about are exactly why I got in the business. Um, the first one was only a couple of years after I, I’d joined Tindale Oliver. Uh, Bill had actually done, um, they had helped create, um, the Lake Sumter MPO back in the day. This would’ve been the early 2000s. And it was a new MPO for Lake County, and they were in the process of getting all of their ducks in a row in terms of their funding and establishing a board and they had that done, and they decided that they wanted to try and implement transit in, in Lake County. And

DOT told them, “That’s great, but you’ve got to do a TDP.” So Bill did the first TDP and unfortunately they were unable to get any traction with it to get service started, so in 2005 they called us back and said, “Hey, we want to do an update to it,” and, and really want to kind of have a n- as you were saying, Christian, an educational process with our board to get them to understand the benefits of transit so that we can get this thing off the ground. So

I was fortunate enough to manage that, that project working with the, the Lake Sumter MPO staff and, you know, it’s kind of tough to do a TDP with a transit agency in place. It’s even harder to do a vision plan when, you know, you’re just kind of making up things as you go along. And we did talk to the public and we did a lot of outreach and it, and it was a really neat process. Came up with about a five to seven route system that, that could be, um, compartmentalized and started up with, with different routes. Uh, there was about a three route network that absolutely had to be in place and then everything else could grow thereafter.

And the plan really got legs. We got the board to adopt it, which was a feat in itself. Um, I, I’ll tell you, it was like pulling teeth at that board meeting.

It was a 10-year plan. The entire cost of the plan was $10 million to get transit started because they’d already saved up money and with the money they were coming, getting from the state and from FTA, it, it was gonna be a very inexpensive startup for at least the first five years, and they still bought. Got them to adopt it. The next item on the agenda was $178 million intersection of, improvement at a place where very few cars drove, and they improved it without a second thought. Mm-hmm. And I, I knew right then I knew what I was dealing with. I want my, my road for my car, I don’t want bus. But they did adopt it and, and within, um, six months I was working on an operations plan for the new service and designed all the routes, did all the scheduling, um, even showed where the main transfer points would be and some key stops would be located. And lo and behold, 2007 they had a ribbon cutting. Uh, that was the first one I got to attend and the new service was branded as Lake Express when it started running. And today I believe they’ve got seven routes and two express routes going and, and connecting with links in Orlando.

So, really proud of that system. Um, one of about four that I’ve designed from the ground up and, uh, but that one still to this day is my favorite, um, because I got a call after they, um, did an RFP for a management company to come in and run the operations of the service in MV1 and

I got a call from their operations manager who was gonna run the system for the county and he said, “Hey, who did the, the routing and the scheduling for the service plan?” And I said, “Well,

I did.” He goes, “Uh, really? I, I just wanted to congratulate you ’cause we didn’t have to change a thing.” And, and so right then I knew I was in the right line of business. Uh, so that, that was a cool project for me, um, getting to see that system get off the ground and now, and now grow and continue to thrive. Um, the other one, and, and I apologize if these are Florida-centric-But, uh, you know, out of my 36-year career or so, um, you know, 33 of them have been in Florida. So, apologize for that.

But I, I would say, um, a year later, um, a gentleman who I knew, uh, back when I was at CUTR, Alan Danaher, was with Kittleson & Associates at the time. I think Alan is still with WSP now.

Um, but Alan and I got to be pretty good friends, and we teamed up on a project for, um, the City of St. Petersburg and, and the Pinellas MPO to do a conceptual planning study for bus rapid transit along Central Avenue in, in Downtown St. Pete,

Florida. And, uh, this was coming on the heels of a 2003 planning study that they had done. They wanted an east-west transit connector somewhere in, in St. Pete. And

Central Avenue became the focus of that study, and they wanted us to expand on that and then show how that corridor could become a bus rapid transit line that would connect the Downtown St. Pete area with the beaches. And so, in this study, we came up with six different segments, uh, for BRT service that could run between either, uh, downtown and one of three potential destinations: St. Pete Beach, Treasure Island, and, and Madeira Beach. And, uh, the preferred option ended up being the

St. Pete Beach corridor. Um, and then things kind of got waylaid a little bit because there was a drawbridge, um, for part of the corridor, and they were constantly opening up the drawbridge without any concern for traffic to accommodate, you know, the big sailboats. And so, there was a thought that that’s gonna mess up operations, so we need to kind of sit and think about this. So, several years passed before they started studying it further, but eventually I, I’m proud to say that, you know, the work that Alan and I did and our staff that worked with us, um, eventually became the running way for SunRunner service that is operating today. It started up in October 2022. So, that’s another one of those things that, you know, don’t, don’t get discouraged if you do a plan and nothing comes of it initially, because sometimes you do get to see the fruits of your labor down the road. E- in this case, it was 16 years down the road, but again, one of the benefits of, of being old, right?

Yeah. The, the word that comes to my mind when I’m, um, you know, hearing your stories and, and these two projects is, is legacy. I mean, I’m just thinking of the, you know, millions of people that have taken the service and been able to have, you know, access to jobs and, and, and, you know, to school and, and, and to life altogether, and you were part of that. I mean, I, I feel all this immense, uh, pride for you and the work you completed, and, and, and it puts a smile on my face because, you know, I was a transit planner at some point in my career as well. And every time that you plan something, uh, and, of course, with that goal of betterment for the community, uh, and those that, uh, use transit and it comes to fruition, you, you’re, you feel that pride. And, and I think that’s part of what, uh, drives us all as transit planners, uh, to continue moving the industry forward. Right. Uh, I completely agree with you. And, and it’s something that I think transit… With the folks I’ve talked to at the various conferences I go to and people I meet when I’m doing work at transit agencies, it, it really is a, a labor of love. It’s a passion. And, and I get that, and it’s amazing how many people will say, “Well, I didn’t start out in transit. I kind of fell into it.” And so, I, I think one of the things that I, I love seeing is that people fall into this, and then they get hooked because of something like, like that, where they’ve been able to successfully achieve something that has helped so many others, and then it makes you want to go out and do it again and do it in more places.

So clearly, Joel, you’ve got this whole decorated history of, uh, all these projects, all these experiences. Can I ask you, what do you think is coming up? What, what’s in transit’s future that we should be preparing for? You know, if there are transit planners or CEOs, whomever is listening, you know, what do you think are those, those future emerging trends and technologies?

Sure. Wow. That, that’s a tough question because, uh, and, and I can answer this question. I’m not sure you two can. You’re a little young, but just think about how much our world’s changed just in the last 50 years. You know, I’ve, I’ve kind of lived it. You’ve heard about some of it. But, um, you know, the innovations we’ve seen, they’ve not stopped. Uh, think about real-time on-demand transportation services, you know, kind of the Uber and Lyft model. Um, they don’t seem that old, right? But Lyft, you know, they started back around 2007, Uber 2009, so they’ve both been around for more than 16 to 18 years. Even though most of their popularity has occurred within the last decade. They’re still, you know, 15-plus years old. That’s amazing to me, and, and so when people talk about microtransit being the new mode in the arsenal of transit services that, that’s out there today, uh, it’s, it’s been around a little while. It’s just taken a while to get its place in, in, you know, the lexicon for, for transit services. And I, I think it’s a great thing because, you know, fixed route is not, uh, it’s not appropriate for all areas, and microtransit’s helping us out there. So, those are some of the things that, that have emerged just in the last decade that are what people call disruptors. Um, things that have shaken the industry a little bit. But what’s next? Um-… interestingly enough, I, I have happened to go, uh, to the Southwest Transit Association Conference earlier this year, APTA Mobility, and now the North Carolina Public Transportation Association Conference. And those are really good venues to pick up on the, you know, the pulse of upcoming trends. And I will tell you, without a doubt, the things that are definitely on everybody’s mind in the transit industry right now, based on the number of presentations

I saw about them, is autonomous vehicles and AI, artificial intelligence, and how these are going to impact the transit agenc- agent, uh, industry, excuse me, as that next potential disruptor. Um, you know, are we gonna see driverless buses on the streets, get, you guys, one day? Maybe. I- I’ve got questions. I- I’ve- Mm-hmm. … got- Sure. … you know, the benefit of doing some safety and security work and seeing, y- you know, interior bus videos of, of attacks and things that happen on buses, whether it’s on operators or, or between passengers, that it’s kinda scary, that, you know, if, if you put a bus out there with people on it and there’s no one there to kinda police, it, what’s gonna happen? So, safety and security first, obviously. You gotta figure that problem out. Um, and what about AI? You know, how can it be applied by transit agencies, um, to improve how they operate, how they function on a day-to-day basis, how they do business? Um,

I’m not AI conversant by any stretch. Mm-hmm. So it’s kinda hard for me to see the possibilities right now. Um, obviously I’m, I’m aging myself, or dating myself, but there are quite a few folks out there who think that the applications are endless and, and I know several of our young folks who are actively thinking about ways to apply those new disruptors, uh, you know, to transit. Uh, yeah, that- that’s really interesting, r- especially regarding the, the AI part. And I’m not sure how much you could speak to this, but have you heard from agencies or, you know, may- maybe during those, uh, those conferences, uh, about how agencies are applying AI?

Because, uh, I mean, Christian and I had a podcast on it not too long ago and- Sure. … we, we thought of some ways that, you know, you might be able to, uh, uh, apply an AI or, you know, a large language model, uh, to be able to, you know, improve scheduling, for, for example, or, you know, perhaps it’s writing transit development plans, or some documentation. Uh- Right. … do, do you have any idea about how- Sure. … that would, that would work? Yeah. So s- some of the things I’ve heard and some of the things that, that triggered in my mind to think about, you know, National Transit Database is a blessing for those of us on the research side, um, a curse for those of y’all on the operations side that are having to collect all that data on an annual basis, report on it, and then justify it when they, uh, come back with their findings. Um, you know, NTD to me is right because it’s just information. And, and that’s where

I think AI has shown itself so far to be really beneficial, um, is be able to take information and, um, assess it, analyze it, format it in a way where it’s, it can be reported, um, easily and in a way that that’s, you know, something you can digest. That’s what NTD is and what it needs. So I, I think there’s a way of, of being able to collect data on an ongoing basis from all of the technologies that are currently applied at transit agencies, and then compiling it and putting it into the proper forms or formats that, you know, need to go to FTA. Um, that’s one area. One of the things I heard was the inventory side, you know, having AI kinda track parts.

Um, and that, that if something that is actively you have tracking part utilization, it can assess how frequently parts are being utilized, and then it can enhance the ordering process and timing so that you’re not over-ordering parts and having stuff sit on a shelf. ‘Cause you know bus parts can be quite expensive. You know, you don’t want five transmissions sitting there, uh, for an extended period of time because that’s, that’s money you’re out. You w- you wanna be able to have something tell you what’s the most effective way to order parts or, you know, how many should we get in and when? That sort of thing.

So that was one of the things I heard. Obviously I heard what you guys talked about with scheduling, um, documentation, development of, of standard operating procedures, um, those kinda things. Um, in other industries, uh, you know, there, if, if you have, um… Gosh, I was just in a…

I, I hate to admit this but I was traveling last week in North Carolina and I, I had to… It was storming and I had to get a quick meal and I drove through a Bojangles ’cause it was the only thing near my hotel. And

I swear they had AI on the drive through because I did not talk to a person. It was an automated attendant who changed the questions and requests based on what I said. And it was- Wow. … it’s interesting. So I think it’s out there. So customer service reps, um, information on, you know, the telephone, scheduling trips for, for paratransit. Those are all areas that, you know, if, if AI can be conversant in that fashion and respond to prompts and questions easily and, and provide information-… then that’s, you know, one less thing you have your customer service reps do, and, and maybe they can focus on the scheduling and other, you know, tasks that they, they’re responsible for. So I, I don’t know. It seems

… I hate to say it’s almost endless, but it, it really is. It, it really is. Right. Yeah, it’s- Yeah, it’s completely wide open right now. And, uh, you know, the, the thing that kind of sticks out to me though is the potential cost, right? The, the cost to the agency and, uh, you know, financially,

I, I think there is some place right now and perhaps even into the, you know, the near future that transit agencies might be more reluctant to spend money or, uh, you know, especially to experiment on something like a, a new a, ai feature or, uh, software. But, yeah, I’m, I’m curious, though, have, have you heard from agencies about their, you know, their funding woes, uh, perhaps or, you know, any uncertainty related to that federal transit funding under the current administration? Yeah. Um,

I, I, I will tell you, it’s on top of everybody’s mind. I, I got to see Dr. Yvette Taylor speak at the North Carolina conference, um, and, and also Scott Bogren from CTAA. And, um, they’re both cautiously optimistic that things will open up and, um, you know, monies will flow again. But, but they also warn that, you know, the IIJA, uh, i- is coming up, I guess it’s 2026, it ends, um- September. Yeah. Yeah. So, the next law that, that they put together, they warn, “Don’t be surprised if the money for transit doesn’t go back down somewhat.”

Um, they, they said, “It’s not gonna be significant.” They said, you know, with the, uh, with the latest iteration, I, I forget the exact numbers, but, say, it jumped from, like, $12 billion total to $20 billion, they said, “It’s not gonna go back to $12 billion, but it’s gonna go back to maybe, like, $18 billion or

$19 billion.” So, it’s not gonna be as lucrative as the last one was, but they said it’s, it’s also not gonna take us back to, um, you know, kind of a couple of iterations ago. So that, that’s a- something that everybody’s concerned and I, and I will tell you, it’s on the minds of the constituents and stakeholders i- in these communities because I, I mentioned when I was in North Carolina last week, um, one of the things I was doing was meeting with this group of, of stakeholders that are overseeing this long-range plan, uh, for

Cabarrus County. And one of the questions I got is, “You know, when are they gonna take all our money away? When’s federal funding gonna dry up? And, and, you know, how much time do we have before we have to figure out what to do about it?” And, and we were like, “Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hey, hey, i- who told you? That’s not, that’s not the story we’re hearing.” So, you know, it- we know it’s out there. It’s a concern. People are, people are wondering and, and all we’re saying is things have just been on hold while the review process goes on. We expect, you know, the- them to follow through with the, the obligations as they had planned for the current year, and we don’t see that changing. It, it’s just gonna be delayed a bit because of the change in administration and the, uh, additional scrutiny that’s been placed on, you know, the federal government, especially on the funding side. So, uh, we’re still hopeful, um, and, and the folks that know more about this than I do seem to be cautiously optimistic. So I, I would caution people, don’t, don’t think the sky is falling, but, you know, also be prepared because there might be a little belt-tightening. Um, Mr. Bogren made an interesting point.

He said, “You know, the agencies that are likely going to be hit the hardest,” he sai- ’cause I didn’t realize this. He said, “Did you know that in the

$20 billion program from the IIJA,” he said, “about 19 of it goes to the major transit agencies like the New York Citys and the Bostons and the

Chicagos and the WMATAAs.” I didn’t realize that. He, he, he said, “You know, that means that out of the 1,400, 1,500 transit systems around the country, you know, 10 or 15 of them get most of the money and everybody else is splitting, like, a billion dollars.” Um, and, and he was just using round numbers, but the point was made. Uh, if money goes away, it’s likely not going to impact the smaller medium-sized agencies as much as. It, it’s probably gonna impact the bigger ones. And, you know, from what we’re hearing, uh, some of those bigger properties are starting to look at ways of, of kind of cutting back, belt-tightening, becoming more efficient, that sort of thing, just to prepare knowing that, you know, they, they’ve got to be ready for what’s gonna come in the future, you know, a year and a half from now.

Yeah. That, that was indeed a, a, a really good update. Uh, I was at the conference and, and I had the privilege to also, uh, listen attentively to, um, you know, what Scott was sharing and, and Dr. Taylor. I think that, uh, the other, uh, piece, uh, to mention is that, uh, a new bill that would be replacing the current one, uh, might also bring new opportunities, and they might be, like, new competitive grants for things that don’t exist today. So, those are the other things to be hopeful for is that it might not necessarily be just cutting and everything going away. Um, from my- what

I recall, you know, most of the formula funding, you know, might be staying as it is-… and it’s some of those competitor programs, uh, that might be affected the most. But with some going away, as we know, the

I in, you know, some zero-emissions i- initiatives, eh, eh, they’re being a, you know, they’re under review as they, they refer to them. Uh, but new programs might come up that might help agencies make progress with transit in their communities. So that’s, that’s something to be hopeful for, uh, and to be in the lookout for, you know, any announcements of new grant opportunities. Right.

Right. No, good points. So, um, that, that’s definitely interesting about funding. And, and we all, and I think all transit agencies, and mostly at the leadership level and, and those CEOs are just, uh, keeping, you know, their finger on the pulse, uh, with this, a- as, you know, um, new news emerge. Um, and a lot of these things are gonna be impacting, of course, later years, which make me think about, you know, some of those newer professionals that are coming into the industry- Sure. … that, uh, have to deal with the AIs and, and, you know, and whatever the, the new transportation bill is gonna be and look like. So thinking about those new, uh, transit professionals, young professionals joining our industry, uh, what would be some recommendations you would give them to be successful, to make the- make their bows, uh, out of their, you know, transit journey? Yeah, that’s… Uh, um, it’s, and it’s something near and dear to my heart starting out at the university system, and, and seeing these young folks going through school. So, uh, I definitely am invested in, in getting the next generation of, of transit professionals and planners ready. Um, so, you know, the first thing I’d say is, is advice maybe on skillsets, uh, and something else, something that, that young folks should think about as they’re getting ready to get out of school. Um, a lot of the people I’ve worked with, when they first came out of school, uh, they had the technical ability. They, they knew how to do analysis. They, they could work with software. Um, they knew GIS, something I didn’t come out of school with. And, and so the technical side is usually not the issue. It’s, it’s what do you do with the technical side? But it’s also the soft skills, and, and I think maybe our universities aren’t doing as much of a, a s- good service for our, our young folks in that area.

And so that’s the one thing that I’ve, I’ve encouraged, you know, the young folks I work with: hone your soft skills. In consulting especially, it help- helps regardless of what you do, but if you’re gonna go into consulting, you’ve got to be able to communicate clearly. Uh, more importantly, you’ve got to be able to listen intentionally.

And, and by intentionally, I mean you, you need to focus on all s- aspects of that speaker, the person who you’re, you know, talking to. Not just listening to the words they’re saying, but how they’re phrasing the words, what are their verbal behaviors? What are their physical behaviors? What are they doing with their body, their emotions? Those are the- all things that are key to reading people and understanding what they mean by what’s coming out of their mouth.

And, and so those are skillsets that we don’t pick up in school. There are things that we learn, you know, in, in, uh, the classroom of life, really. So, I can’t tell you how many times

I have heard from my clients how much they’ve enjoyed working with somebody on our staff, whoever that may be. And w- I always probe them and say, “Oh, would you like with them,” you know, why? What, why is it, and what’d you like working with them about? And, and it’s working clear that they’re referring to the relationship that they’ve established with our staff member more than any of the analysis or, or writing or good work that they did for them. And I, and

I’ve always… You know, early in my career, I’d hear that and I’d be like, “Ah, it’s relationships, but did they give you a good product? Were you happy with the plan?” And they would go back to, “Yeah, I really enjoyed working with so-and-so.” So, as I got older in my career, I realized, man, this is critical. Um, people like working with people who they like and who they can relate to. So improving these soft skills, I think, are critical for our young folks, regardless of whether they’re going into the transit profession as a, a public employee at an agency or if they’re gonna work for FTA or work at a consulting agency some- somewhere.

Um, and, and another thing I’ll mention quickly about this is, there’s not a m- lot of transit-specific university programs around the country. I mean, we talked about how most of the people you all know and I know have fallen into transit in some fashion. So, most of the planners who want to get into transit, I think they’re already behind the curve a little bit as it relates to gaining these specifical- specific transit planning skillsets that they need. Um, so I’d also recommend when, when you’re still in school and you know you want to get into transit like, like what I did when I joined CUTR, look to intern at a local transit agency for a semester or two.

Um, I think that’d be a great help, um, throughout, you know, the later career. I know several folks who have done that, graduating from University of Florida, and I use that example because I’ve hired a couple of them who interned at, at Regional Transit System in Gainesville, and, and that’s where they got to learn transit before going out and, and starting their careers. So I think that’s a huge thing. Um.

And transit agencies do benefit a lot from those interns as well. Sure. Mm. I’ve, uh, you know, in my experience, they’ve, you know, we ended up hiring a lot of the interns that came, you know, to Pomfret…. when I was there, and some of ’em, tremendous skillsets as well. So, the- there’s a mutual benefit. Uh, and, and new ideas, right? And you have that brought new, uh, blood coming in, and, and folks that just see things differently because they’re not institutionalized just yet. Um-

Yeah. … so there’s, there’s definitely, uh, you know, a win-win in that relationship with, with interns and, and those folks that are showing interest in the transit industry. Yeah. And I, I’ll tell you as, as, like, when you get to be in my position, you get older, sometimes you get a little jaded and you’re not quite as excited to come into work every day. Just the excitement of the young folks when I’m around them… I, I work remotely these days, unfortunately, and, and I try and get to Tampa and work in that office with a lot of our transit staff as much as I can. And I tell you, just being around them, I get more excited. I’ve got a lot more energy when I’m in the office with them than when I’m in my office, you know, here up in the mountains of North Georgia by myself.

So, Joe, uh, how can new professionals make a minimal, uh, a meaningful impact in the industry? And also, any mentors or resources you can recommend them?

Sure. Yeah. Great question, Christian. So, the first thing I would tell young professionals, folks coming out of school, is meaningful impact takes time.

Recall the story I had about Sunrunner and 16 years between the time I helped plan a route and time that the service actually got started. So, don’t get discouraged if the first project you work on doesn’t get implemented after, you know, the first week or two. Uh, you know, give it time. So, ’cause th- those things are gonna happen for you. And, and sometimes it takes a little bit of, of, of time in your career, uh, for meaningful impact to occur. So, the best things that, that these folks can do, I think, to help them have that kind of opportunity later in their careers is, first of all, get involved, um, in as many different types of projects as you can. Um, I had a professor, uh, early in my civil engineering education, and this is probably why I ended seeking to do something different than building buildings. He said, “Hey, look, you might be the best bridge footer designer up for your whole career and never do anything else, and that’s okay.” And I thought, “No, it’s not. I’m not gonna sit chained to a desk designing bridge footers for the rest of my life.” And so I knew I had to get out and do something different. And, and working at CUTR helped me achieve that because I was working on all kinds of aspects of transit, from funding to operational analysis to planning to policy. Um, I was involved in, in the editing and writing of the, the new TDP rule back in, um, well, it was in 1999, although the rule didn’t come out until 2007 ’cause the lawyers got ahold of it. But it… I had so many really unique experiences and opportunities, and it’s because

I got plugged into a lot of different things. I just didn’t do projects on Title VI or projects on, you know, vision planning. Go out and do a lot of different things. Also, get plugged into the industry. There are a lot of great things out there. We talked a little bit about conferences.

There’s training courses, webinars, um, you could even do some on-the-side study and research on topics you find interesting. Um, those are all things that’re gonna help you with your job. They’re gonna help you become more confident in your ability to deal with clients’ needs and answer questions. If you have skills that need strengthening, go out and seek opportunities to do that.

I, I used to work with a couple of folks who were terrified of public speaking. And, and I’ll tell you that, y- you know, when you think of transit, you’re thinking, “Well, public speaking, that’s not part of transit.” Sure it is. You deal with the public all the time, whether you’re an operator or you’re a planner, or somebody that’s going out and doing the, you know, the public involvement for a study.

It’s a critical skill in transit. And, and these folks went out and joined Toastmaster clubs near their homes, um, to be able to hone that skill. And then the third thing I think that’s critical is get a mentor. And, and you referenced this, Christian, and, and let me talk about that for a minute.

You know, whether it’s somebody at work or somebody in the industry that you happen to know, reach out and ask somebody to help you.

Set up regular meetings. There are a lot of seasoned folks out there willing to help the next generation of transit planners. Um, you know, I had the opportunity to, to, uh, mentor actually one of your, um, coworkers at Palm Tran, Yash Nagal. Uh- Thank you. … he was part of the

APTA program, and, and I was his official mentor as part of that program. And we spent a year together, and it was fabulous. And Yash and I are, uh, great friends. And now Yash actually works for Benesh, and, and I get to communicate with him a lot more frequently, and not just on mentoring stuff. But it, it can be a great experience for both people. And I’ll, and I’ll tell you, I learned as much from Yash as I, I hope he learned from me. So, if you work at a transit agency, um, you know, in addition to mentors, there are other things that, that you can utilize as resources. Um, I know a lot of systems are, uh, members of APTA. Make a use of that resource. They, they have great material out there, they’ve got the conferences, industry research information. These are all things that could be helpful to you in your career. TRB, Transportation Research Board, is another great resource. Uh, know it well. Um, the Transit Cooperative Research Program, TCRP, that comes out of TRB is a great…… resource, a lot of publications, many of them on all kinds of transit topics. In fact, they’re, they’re generating some new ones now where they’re talking about AI in transit and autonomous vehicles. So, some of the things that we’ve kind of previewed, we should be seeing coming up in some TCR reports soon. Um, both FTA and CTAA also have helpful materials online. So, those are all resources that, you know, young professionals should look at. Um,

I, I know that mentors are tough to find, but, you know, start talking to folks at, at your current job. If you’re an intern or you’re working some place, talk to some of the older folks that are a little more seasoned and have kind of that gray hair. Um, I, I’ll tell you, at Benesch, I, I love the fact that our firm has a formal mentoring program. I don’t, I don’t even have to go out and try and find somebody to mentor. I can just sign up and get assigned to somebody who wants me to, uh, help them in their career who, you know, is interested in transit. So, um, I’m sure if, if you’re working for a firm, they may have similar programs. Just, you know, ask the question. But these are all ways that you can really help, uh, get a jump start on your career and start building, um, this network that’s gonna serve you well throughout, you know, throughout the years in working in transit. Uh, that’s really amazing advice, Joel, and it’s really great to hear that Benesch has that program. That’s already established, and all you have to do is just sign up and then you can be paired with a mentor. Uh, I don’t know too many places that are like that, so perhaps it’s another one that you can add to what sets Benesch apart.

Sure. Uh, you know, I was taking notes as you were talking, and, uh, yeah, I was taking notes as you were talking and I’ve got a few takeaways that I hope would be a benefit to our listeners. But one is don’t get discouraged early on. Meaningful impact takes time.

I really love that quote. I think that’s, uh, very impactful. Uh, funding will likely be there, so we, we don’t anticipate the funding to dry up. At least that’s not what we’re hearing. And don’t forget the soft skills.

Yeah. Uh, because those are equally as important as knowing the, the mathematics side. Uh, you know, being able to communicate and being an effective communicator, especially in a public setting, is, is a critical skill as well. Uh, Joel,

I want to say thank you so much, uh, for joining us. It’s been really a great conversation. Uh, can you tell our listeners how they can connect with you or learn more about Benesch? Sure, absolutely. If anyone wants to connect with me, I’m available through, uh, LinkedIn. Um, you can also reach me via email at jrey@benesch.com. That’s

B-E-N-E-S-C-H dot com. Um, the easiest way to learn more about my firm, Benesch, is to visit our website at www.benesch.com. And I, I just want to tell you guys, um, I appreciate this opportunity. I’ve had a great time and, uh, hopefully we can, um, you know, inform some of the listeners, uh, on some topics that either they didn’t know about or wanted to learn more about.

Uh, thank you, Joel. Thank you, Joel. It, it was indeed a, a great episode, and, and thank you for all the advice for young professionals. Uh, we need more people in the transit industry, uh, charting the way for a better transit the future.