Harnessing the Power of Information with Houston METRO’s Jorge Espinoza

Stop Requested. Welcome to Stop Requested, the podcast where we discuss everything transit. I’m your co-host, Levi McCollum, Director of Operations at ETA Transit. And I’m your co-host, Christian Londono, Senior Customer Success Manager at ETEspinozaA Transit.

Welcome back to Stop Requested. Christian, how are you? Levi, I’m doing great. Just very excited, uh, about another transit conversation. Yeah, this is gonna be a good one. Uh, we … Today, we have a very special guest, Jorge

Espinoza, who is the interim scheduling manager at Houston Metro, and also the founder of Cruzero. Jorge, how are you doing? Hey, Levi, Christian. Thank you so much for this space. I really appreciate the invitation and ready. Absolutely. No, we’re really excited to have you on. Uh, it’s our pleasure. Jorge, you and I have known each other for a while now, maybe close to a decade or a little longer. Yeah. Uh, but for the audience who may not be familiar with you, can you give a bit of an intro into what you do at Houston Metro, how you got there? What’s your background?

For sure. Um, I’m a native from Bolivia, Santa Cruz, a beautiful city, the most beautiful in Bolivia. Um, um, studied civil engineering.

I worked for two years, uh, in my career, and then I decided I, I wanted to explore a different career and study, uh, transportation in Lisbon, Portugal, with, uh, MIT and a partnership with the three best engineering schools in Lisbon, the

Universidade de Lisboa, Universidade de Coimbra, and Universidade de Porto. Yeah, after that, I went back to Bolivia, worked for the municipality for, uh, almost four years. I love it. Uh, I got to know so much about my city, uh, all the, uh, complexities about working in the public sector in, in Bolivia, which is not so friendly with, uh, technical people. And then after that, uh,

I went to Mexico. I worked with, uh, transportation consultants over there. Uh, I worked almost a year, and then, throughout this time, um, uh, my, my sister, my oldest sister, um, who was married to an American, she requested, uh, the residency for the whole family, and it came up while I was in Mexico. I almost forgot that that, uh, process was going on, and I had to move to the US. So when I came to the US, no one knew, uh, about me, my experience, who I was. I really have a, a good reputation, uh, I like to say, in Bolivia, or like to believe. Uh, then, um, I started working in Savannah, a really nice, beautiful city. Oh, I, I love it. It’s, it’s such a beautiful and peaceful place.

You know, uh, at, at the very beginning, I, I, I, I was not happy about being in, uh, such a small city, right? You know, uh, you see Savannah and, and you, you start asking yourself, “Why people come here?” Uh, I mean, you see bachelor parties, uh, all over the place, and then, uh, you see guys on, on the other side of the street, and then they end up on, on the same bar and blah. Uh, but, uh, when I moved to Houston, looking for, uh, better opportunities, uh, higher salaries and everything, uh, then I realized, yes, that’s why people go to Savannah. Because it’s, it’s peaceful. There’s no traffic. Uh, it’s, it’s really nice.

So I worked as a scheduler in, in Savannah. I, I used, uh, Trapeze. I, I loved scheduling. I like to say that I, I play with people lives, uh, but I spoil them actually. Uh, I,

I love to think, uh, that when I, when I do this, I, I, I am the one who’s going to drive this or I’m going to take this, uh, roster, right? So I feel that that’s the best, uh, way of taking this job as well, or, or think about this, this position. Uh, now in Houston, I moved, uh, in 2018.

I started, uh, again, as a scheduler. Uh, the whole team in, in Houston retire after a year I was here, uh, so throughout that year, I had to take notes of all the years of experience that they have. Altogether, it was probably almost, uh,

120 years of experience, uh, among these, uh, schedulers, and I have to take that down for one year.

Uh, so I completed probably, I don’t know, three, four notepads of, of notes, and now they are like, uh, trophies that I have in, in my cubicle. Um, after that, um, when, uh, some, uh, changes happened in, in Houston, um, I became the, uh, interim scheduling Manager, and that’s what

I’m doing right now. And I, I, I enjoy the, the work that I do there. I, I like to, to, to do what I do because I, I feel like I’m, I’m playing, and that’s, that’s the best thing.

When you enjoy what you’re doing, you feel like, like it’s, it’s not work. It’s just playing. Yeah, I really- … love it. … love that perspective. Uh, and I think Christian and I shared that when we worked, uh, on the public side, uh, you know, doing the, you, you know, making schedules, planning the routes. It, it is fun.

You, you know, you can have a, a positive impact on people’s lives, and you get to do something that you love. It, uh, really is a nice mashup there. Um, you, you know, you’ve been at Houston for a little while, if my math is correct, around seven years. Yep. What do you think makes Houston different? What, what makes it unique?

Well, uh, we have, uh, almost 110 routes, uh, in the city. Um, I feel that is, is that here about the resources that we have, right? For example, uh,

I, I don’t wanna talk about, uh, if it’s bad or, or good. In Savannah, uh, the use of resources, it was not so much, like, audited, right? Uh, here, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s what makes you proud. You are really maximizing the resources that you have.

You are really taking care of every single cent that go, goes to your fund, so your budget. So, I, I, I really feel proud of how we use the resources, the respect that we have for the resources that, that we have, uh, available in the agency. We, we do plenty. We do a lot with, with the, uh, resources that we’re given, and

I feel that everyone is very responsible of that, is, is very, um, accountable for that. So, that’s, that’s what makes me proud of, of what we doing in Houston. What makes it unique, you know, or, or from the, from the agencies that I know of, right?

Right. Yeah, yeah, I mean, that does sound pretty special, uh, at least in my experience. Uh, you know, you’ve worked at a lot of, a lot of different places internationally. Uh, can you describe to me what, in your experience, leads to a, a user-friendly system?

Uh, uh- I will say the access to information, you know? Uh, if you give information to, to people, you give them power, power to decide the route that they will take, uh, power to decide how they want to spend their, their time. Uh, in, in, in transportation, there’s a concept about, uh, that you have to let the, the people who, who’s willing to take, uh, public transportation to spend the less amount of time inside the bus. So, you have to always plan in such a way that you optimize their time, uh, to make them more productive, to make them more competitive. So, when someone takes public transportation and public transportation has been designed the right way, planned for the right way, okay, then that customer, that, that, uh, user gets productive because he doesn’t get tired at the end of the route or, or to his destination. He is, uh, more aware, you know? He, he’s, he’s not sleepy or whatever. So, I feel that the power of information, letting people decide, like for apps, you know, when, when you have a, a transit planner app, like, like the one I made. So, if they have access to information, they can tell, “Okay, I may, uh, get there on a, on a straight route, on a, on a direct route, or I can take a transfer if I want to probably go buy something at the, at the near cafe or, or in the supermarket or wherever.” So, it’s, it’s the power of information that you give to the user. And now, with so many, so much, uh, social media available, it’s, it’s great, you know? Every single agency is doing a good job on that.

Yeah, I’m really glad that you brought up, uh, the power of information because I was just going to ask you about your, your trip planning app that you created for Santa Cruz. Uh, if you could, just describe to our audience what it does and why you created it. Why was that important for you? So, when I was in Lisbon, um,

I got lost so many, so many times. I don’t know, uh, you, you say you, you went to Lisbon. If you recall, um, when you go to the subway and you go- get out, almost every single corner, or at least to me, it looked the same. So, I would go out of this, uh, station and this, the buildings were the same. So, I got lost so many times. Uh, and then I decided to use the, the bus because, uh, when, when you are there, you actually move more through subway, or at least me. I, I moved more through the subway than, than bus. So, I, I download the app. It helped me, but it was, it was, uh, not so intuitive, you know? Uh, I really didn’t like the, the lack of intuitiveness that, that the app had. And, uh, at that time, uh, almost, I was almost done with my master’s, and I thought, “Okay, well, you know what? I have learned so many concepts, so many theories about transportation, about what the user needs, about the user perception and everything.

I can make something better than this.” But the issue that, that hit me at first is like, “Okay, well, I don’t have any programming uh, uh, competencies. I, I, I don’t know how to code or anything.” So, I went back to Bolivia, of course, after my master’s, and I had to look for programmers. Uh, at that time, Android apps were building, uh, like, uh, starting to be built, uh, so there was not so much experience on that. It was actually one or two years after Uber, uh, came back, came to the market. So, I actually took an Uber when, when I, uh, left Lisbon to the airport. So, it’s a, it’s a really nice story. But, um, when I came back to Bolivia, okay, well, say, um, there’s so much, uh, need for information because, uh, if, if you recall, in Santa Cruz or in every, every single Latin American country, there’s not so much regulation.So the access to information is very constrained. Uh, and, and this is because operators actually, uh, they, they make more money out of, uh, this organization. Uh, if you don’t have that much information, of course you have to make transfers. You have to ask the driver, “Hey, do you, do you go to such and such place? Or, uh, how much is the, is the, uh, ticket or whatever?” So the more information you give to the user, the best. And I thought, okay, well, uh, I already work in the municipality, I can access the information that they have here. And I thought, well, this, this is a good place to access, uh, to information that is purgest, but the municipality didn’t have any information at all. So I had to produce that database and

I produced a database, I gave it to the programmers, uh, gave them the ideas, and they were able to translate my ideas to the app. It was great. You know, uh, a, a funny story about this is, um, when, when I first uploaded the app, um,

I think I uploaded around 9:00 PM or so, right? And it, it’s like, oh, okay, like, you, when you take a final, you, you are already ready to, to send it to the, to the market, or, or to the marketplace, so, so people can, can download it. And, uh, I went to sleep. I, I told my mom, “Hey,” uh, everything I, I did in life, I, I, I did it for my mom, uh, to show her, right?

Li- like, every, every single kid. “Hey, mom, I did this.” So I, I told my mom, “Hey, I, I uploaded the app, uh, and it’s ready.” So the next day, I got, uh, 13, uh, downloads, and I was like, “Okay, uh, this is fun.” Uh, but

I got a little bit scared, uh, you know, probably like an imposter, um, uh, how they call it? The imposter, uh, syndrome. So, because I thought, well, uh, you know, what about if, if they don’t like it? What about if, if something fails? And, uh,

I, I went up, uh, to my office, and they started talking about this app that came to, to the mar- to the, uh, to the Android apps. And, and they were asking like, who, who, who will be the owner? And

I was just, you know, silence and everything in the office. When I came back to, to my, uh, house, I talked to my mom, “Hey, they are talking about my app in, in the office.” So the next day, there’s

153 downloads. I got so scared. I, I didn’t want to go back to the office. I didn’t want to even say, “This is my app.”

So, but then, you know, something hit me. Uh, okay, this is something that people actually start downloading even without making any, any ads. So, so this is something that they need to know. And I went to, uh, the plaza, you know, downtown, and I looked- Right. … for, uh, reporters. You know, they are always making, uh, uh, some, some sort of a news report. And I looked for this reporter. I found her, and I told her,

“Hey, you know what? I, I have an app that, uh, tells you about, uh, buses.” And she said, “Okay, well, show me.” And, and then I opened the app in my, in my phone, and the server went down.

Oh. It starts failing right in front of the reporter, right? In live television. I’m like, “Oh, okay. Well, uh, thank you for your time and blah, blah, blah,” and bye. And

I called the programmer, say, “You know what? This has been, very, uh, shameful, uh, because, uh, I tried to show the app,” and so and so. It, it was not a, a problem on their end. It was not a problem on us. It, it was just the server. So the next day, I found the same, uh, reporter. I told her, “Hey, you know what? Now it’s gonna work.” And it was great. Uh, she made a, uh, an article, or let’s say, uh, give me, like, two, two minutes of time, uh, on TV. And then, uh, after that, um, people started downloading even more. Uh, but the newspaper from our city, El Deber, uh, they called me for an interview.

After that interview, went to the newspaper, uh, then it’s when Krusero starting, uh, to, uh, uh, grew. Um, it had, uh, I believe, uh, 15,000 downloads on only one day. It was crazy. Oh, I felt like- Wow. … a, a viral influencer, you know?

So it, it’s amazing. Uh, reading all the reviews of the users is amazing. Is, is what I do when I feel down. I go and read the reviews, and I, I, I always thankful because people actually appreciate what I did, uh, and I keep, uh, updating the app, you know, from time to time.

Um, so that’s, that’s what, uh, keeps me alive. Uh, people who actually use my, my product, who appreciates the work that I do, and then it gives me the little, uh, bump that I need every single day.

You know, o- one thing that you said earlier about being a, a transit planner, and when you said that, like, I resonated right away, because as a transit planner, you get to have an impact on people’s lives, right? Like, so many people depend on public transit to get around, and, and there’s-… like, the impact is, it’s, is, uh, has a ripple effect.

Like even, eh, industries, even, you know, businesses, like, there’s so much impact when you make changes and, and you make things better for people in a given community and, and you know, you make mobility work better, you feel that satisfaction, right? Like, from being able to improve the bus stops, all that, and then being able to do what you’ve done, like listen to your story. This story is, was super powerful and, and I’m very, uh, excited, um, you know, that, that you brought it here, uh, for our listeners to hear about it, which is as a transit planner in a city, being able to develop an app, uh, for the users to be able to, you know, um, eh, improve the way that they navigate their system. And, and something that you said is the power of communication, right? Like, when you’re able to give, uh, all this powerful information to the riders for their decision-making, then now there’s more reliability with the system, there feels like there’s a little bit more transparency, but then they know how to make the most of it. So, you know, again, Jorge, it’s just very impressive. Take my hat off. I mean, your, your story is, is quite powerful. And, and now I, I wanted to ask you a question after I said all that because I, I’m just really excited with, with that story. And, and I just imagined what it would be like if I was in your shoes, right? Like, looking at the downloads and seeing, like, everybody using the app and actually liking it and saying, “Wow, this is, this is good.” Uh, but just, I wanted to ask you, you know, you work internationally, eh, you know, it’s sharing those stories of those places where you’ve been, and then you work at Houston Metro and, you know, you’ve been working in the US. Uh, what’s the biggest cultural or structural infrastructure, uh, difference between those systems where you’ve been? I, I feel the biggest difference is regulation, you know? How, how much is enforced. In Latin America, the regulator often has not, uh, real interest in pushing for a structure. Private operators can influence decisions. They make more money from chaos, because disorganization increase transfers, like I, like I said before. Even though, uh, it makes user lives harder.

Imagine commuting three or four trips a day, 30 minutes each less. You reach your destination already exhausted. So the lack of regulation is one of the, the biggest, uh, cultural change that, that there is between the US and, and Latin America.

Here, it’s, it’s amazing. You have regulations that allows you or makes you actually, let’s say, give a rest to your driver. Uh, they cannot work more than 10 hours. Many Latin America, they, they probably work for 16 hours.

Um, the regulation that, for example, uh, you can only stop in designated stops, right? Uh, over there is, is you just, uh, lift your, your arm and, and that’s the bus.

So, um, it’s, it’s, it’s very complicated. I feel that that is something that actually Latin America could, um, uh, learn from, from the US to have regulations, strong regulations.

Yeah, I would agree with that. I, I think that, you know, uh, uh, in South America particularly as you mentioned, eh, a lot of the transit systems there, like, flag stop. People just wave at the bus, and they just yell at the bus or they pull the cord when they’re on the bus, eh, to get off whenever.

And, and then sometimes drivers wanna stop, sometimes they don’t because they don’t feel they’re safe. But it’s, it’s not as organized. Uh, eh, and a lot of the transit systems in the US, uh, I would agree is a little bit more organized, uh, but also coordinated. To your point, it becomes a chaos because there is different providers and then there’s no coordination. Everybody can do whatever, uh, versus trying to, you know, make their system a little bit more concise. Um, so, you know, speaking about that, because even, um, in transit systems in the US that are very coordinated and, you know, they’re following all these different regulations and policies, uh, they can also be very complex, right? E- especially in Houston, the complexity of the network and the modes and the mobility i- it’s, is, there’s a lot of complexity, right? So, um, as a scheduler, in, in thinking about scheduling and planning for this service, um, what makes the, it’s doing that process, uh, both challenging and rewarding? Co- could you speak a little bit about that? Oh, like I say, scheduling is like playing Tetris, you know? Uh, so I love it. Uh, I, I… What I do i- is just playing. So, um, one thing people misunderstand, for example, when, when you see a public transportation, when you see buses, is that seeing an empty bus doesn’t mean waste, for example, right?

Sometimes a route connects to major points. So the bus may look empty in one segment and full in another. But you still need the bus to do the, the, uh, trip back, right? So people who, who’s not, uh, a transit, uh, let’s say, um, um, professional or, uh, understood of the, of the intricacies of transit, they don’t, they don’t see that, that need or that balance. So adding, adding a bus, adding a trip, we, we see, we see this request because we have this CRM s- uh, um, system. Um, people will say, “Oh, you know what? You need to add a trip in such and such time,” and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay, well, uh, there’s no ridership. There’s no demand. So if it’s, uh, for you only, uh, this is public transportation, not private transportation. So that is one thing. Uh-But, of course, you have certain, uh, time frames of the day, uh, the peak times, for example, from

7:00 to 8:00, let’s say, where people is trying to get to their destination, to their office or wherever, and you need to have the capacity to move all these, all these people in such a, a, a small time.

Um, so you have to add trips and many times these trips cannot be recycled, cannot be used to, uh, connect to another bus that can actually benefit you and, and you can save resources. So that makes your scheduling complicated or complex. Uh, also your run cutting, of course. Uh, it increase the amount of resources that you need like buses, uh, operators, so that is very challenging. When, when it’s rewarding is when you get to the final stage, let’s say,

I get to rostering, which I love it because then I get to give consistency to my drivers. I tell them, “Okay, uh, well, uh, you’re not gonna, uh, drive more than 10 hours a day. You are gonna have at least

12 hours of rest. Uh, you are gon- not going to drive no more than, than three routes if you are in the lower seniority in the agency, and you’re gonna drive one single route if you’re on the top seniority.” So it’s, it’s all about the rules. It’s all about, uh, adapting all these MOAs that different agencies have. And

I love that, that stage where we get to rostering, that, um, when we get to the, uh, run cut reviews with, with, uh, drivers, when we get to meet with them and they, they smile and they, uh, say, uh, “Thank you,” and everything. It, it’s so rewarding, you know, because we work for different, uh, customers, let’s say, in scheduling. We work for our users, of course the one who takes the bus. But we also, uh, work for drivers. Drivers are our face to, to the customers. Drivers, uh, if they are, uh, tired, if they are frustrated, if they are dismotivated, man, i- i- it impacts o- on the image of, of your agency. So by giving them this, uh, let’s say, uh, rewards or, or, uh, spoil them in such way, uh, it makes their lives better.

So that, that has an impact o- on the user, has an impact on the quality of the service that goes on the street. So that is rewarding for me.

Yeah. And, and you’re right is, it’s like Tetris, right? Like it’s not, uh, an exact science. There’s so many different, um, factors that you have to take into account and, and like you said, for the public and for people it’s like, “Oh, we just, you know, we need a, a trip here. Just put a trip.” And they don’t understand like, you know, sometimes you have to put another full bus, like what it does with cost and so many things and balancing all those different factors is, uh, very exciting but, uh, is also very complex.

And also, like to your point, that work with the schedule, like building the work for the drivers is also so personal, right? Because you feel that you are, uh, controlling their lives, like how they come to work and experience work every day and you wanna do it in a way where, you know, it’s gonna be fair to them and it’s also gonna be fair to the public.

So it’s, it’s definitely, uh, quite a balancing act. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I always say, “Will I, will I drive this? Will

I take this job? Would I feel, uh, thankful to the scheduler?” So many times I, I call the, the garage, you know, to ask them, “Okay, do you have any complaints on any single route? Or do you, do you hear from drivers that they are, uh, getting delay or do you need more time, less time, whatever?”

Uh, and when I call, “Hey, it’s your favorite scheduler.” Tell me what you’re, what you think. So Jorge, you’ve been on the, the public side, you’ve worked for consultants, you’ve developed this app, eh, for Cruceños for people that are from Santa Cruz and, you know, traveling there. Uh, wha- how have you been able to kind of mix all of these together, combine them, and how, how does that influence the way that you think about the role of technology in, uh, in transportation generally? I feel technology is key. It, it optimize your time. It makes your work easier, of course. Like, you know, how AI right now is, is developing in every single, uh, workplace, uh, logistics, supply chain, operations, whatever, even transit. Uh, and they say, “Oh, uh,

AI is going to remove jobs. AI is going to, uh, take away job.” But it’s not like that, you know, because, uh, whoever doesn’t get on the bus, let’s say, with AI, uh, is, is gonna lose their job because they, they are not willing to innovate. They are not willing to go with the, with the, uh, way of, of, uh, how things are evolving. So using AI in, in, uh, in different ways, you know, uh, to improve your, your blocking, eh, using AI to improve your, uh, run cutting.

Uh, even with, uh, communications, let’s say that you want to send a very professional email, but it doesn’t come to your mind so you just ask AI, “Hey, you know, uh, what, uh, please write it with a little transit background, uh, use, uh, such and such professional, uh, language or tone and, and be very empathetic,” let’s say. So

AI produces your, your, your, uh, document. So I feel that is very important to use technology in transit is, is key to any, uh-… any agency. But it’s also, uh, uh, very dangerous because, uh, if you rely too much on technology and, and the people who use the technology doesn’t have the criteria then, uh, you end up with, with trash, right? Uh, like I always say, you put trash on the model, you get trash out. So you always have to mix criteria with technology. And technology can also fail.

Technology can also, uh, make you lose data. For example, uh, AVL or APCs, the automatic vehicle locators or the automatic, uh, passenger counters. If you rely too much on this information and, and it doesn’t work or you don’t have a, a good

IT department that backs you up, then you lose a, a large data set that will help you plan even better. So it’s, it’s, it’s key to, to have a good understanding of technology and also maintain this, this technology.

And you mentioned AI. I, I know that agencies are starting to think about how they incorporate AI into their planning or into their, their scheduling processes. Uh, do you… there, there’s also the concern that, uh, as you mentioned, rightfully so, that you don’t wanna over-rely on it, right, or, or that it can overpromise and underdeliver. Uh, have, have you noticed that there is that sort of mismatch between what is being promised from technology solutions that are on the market versus what you actually need as a scheduling manager?

Well, you know, uh, like my transit app, uh, for example, right? Uh, many times people, uh, think that a transit app is going to be perfect. Uh, what if the devices that the transit app relies on to give you, let’s say, that the bus is on time, that the, um… I don’t know, the, the route is, uh, on detour or whatever, right, and you are waiting on, on such stop. And it happens that in reality because of a detour the bus is not gonna come, or if it shows on time and in reality the bus is really late. So it’s, it’s very important to, to have this transit app, uh, not so, uh, dependable, you know, for, for the transit agency. So e- e- I, I feel the, the technology and AI, it will play a key role in the future. Uh, AI is developing so fast, you know. It is creating so many tools, so many, uh, resources for different, uh, careers that will allow us to optimize, uh, work.

You know, like they say, uh, um, work smarter, not harder. So I, I feel if you are able to master AI, you are gonna be able to be so productive, and it makes you competitive as well. Any, any, any, uh, company, let’s say like ETA, it will become so competitive if they are able to implement AI the right way, uh, and, and beat all these big, uh, competitors in, in the market. Yeah. Th- there’s a lot of, uh, promising, uh, you know, functionality and applications of AI, uh, that we’re definitely, uh, on, uh, ETA side, uh, watching out for and, and, you know, working towards. Uh, so th- that’s promising, uh, in the future. Uh, I’m thinking also, eh, about challenges. So what, what’s one challenge in transit today, uh, that you think gets less attention but will become critical in the next few years? Hmm. Um, the access to information, the d- the access to… the information from, from the system itself, you know, for, for planners. If you don’t have reliable access, you cannot plan. You cannot optimize your system. You cannot optimize the network. Uh, you know, in transportation, we, we started a concept of origin-destination matrices and everything and how you have to, uh, update this, this matrix every five years. So if you are able to probably optimize it, uh, a bit faster with, with the use of AI or mobile data and be able to, uh, actually improve your network, like what happened, uh, with COVID, you know. COVID changed the patterns. There’s now people who works from home. Now people probably, uh, I don’t know, during, uh, flooding in, in COVID, they moved from a neighborhood to another. And now, uh, because, um, an origin-destination matrix wasn’t, wasn’t built or wasn’t, uh, analyzed, then your, your system just goes to somewhere that they are not needed. So I, I feel that that’s, that’s key. Yeah. Yeah, that access to information is, is, is critical, eh, eh- particular for decision-making. An- and like you said, you know, the world is, is getting more and more dynamic. Uh, communities are getting more complex in terms of, uh, you know, mobility options and, and even population density, right, is growing. So it’s important to be able to have, um, that ability to be dynamic and have the information for, for decision-making. Uh, that’s key. So l- let me ask you this other question, right? Em, you work at Houston Metro, and then you still have this amazing app, uh, Cruzaro, um, that is helping out, uh, the people in Santa Cruz. So between your work at Metro and Cruzaro, what excites you most about the future of mobility? Um, um, about the future of mobility…Uh, that’s a, that’s a thing that I need to, I need to think about.

Right. Because you, you know, you, you created this app, right? Mm-hmm. And, and, um, you know, like a, a lot of transit agents here in the US they have some, you know, uh, uh, mobility planners and, and some sort of similar apps to get information about the system, right? So, so what are some of these things that are coming into the future maybe for Krusado? Like, w-what, what do you see that might be happening with it into the future? Um, and, and maybe, you know, a- as, as you’re working in some of the new service changes and projects in metro, like, what are some of the things that you see in the, in the future? Oh. Um, uh, for example, uh,

I would like to make the job for drivers picking their, their, their rosters ei- the, the access to information through a mobile app that shows you, okay, these are the rosters available for you.

Uh, or, you know, uh, get access to real-time, uh, information from a, from a transit planner app. Right now, you do get some sort of, uh, real-time information but it’s very dependable on the quality of the device. So, if there’s a different way to get access to that, you know? Um, I will say some sort of, uh, pattern, uh, recognition, uh, that every single day, you know, the bus has been in such and such, uh, time at this location. Okay, so now the app will say,

“It, it is supposed to be there. It is expected to be there because nothing has changed or we don’t have any, any sort of data that, that tells me that this has changed.” So,

I, I feel that the more information you, you are able to produce to get the job easier for the user, for the drivers, for your planners, that, that is going to be a success in, in the future, you know? If, if you get technology so involved in this, in this, uh, process. Really like that answer, Jorge. Uh, I, I wanna consolidate what you’ve said throughout our conversation today into a few key takeaways. Uh,

I’ve got three here. You let me know if you have any more. Maybe I missed them, maybe you’d say it a little bit differently. But the three important ones that I, I noted down here while you were talking is the access to accurate and reliable information is critical. I- it has been critical, will continue to be critical for the transit agency and for the public. And, you know, y- we can’t forget how, uh, how important that is to be able to get the reliable information to the end user, which is going to be the, the transit rider. Uh, transit operators or the, the drivers of the vehicles are the face of the organization. And for you, as a scheduler, they’re your customers, right? You might have the customers that are transit riders, but your first line of customer is going to be your transit operator. And then finally, be fluent in the technology, but be careful not to over-rely on it because it does have its traps, right? You don’t wanna fall into the traps.

Did I get the high-level ones? Is there any that you would add? Yeah, yeah. Uh, I mean, it, it, it’s, it’s, it’s like, like you say, uh, with the relying on, on technology. Uh, I’ll say criteria is very important, right? That, that ev- anyone who is in the transit industry has to create a good criteria based on experience, uh, read about, uh, s- uh, case studies all over the world, uh, f- find out what happened, uh, learn the good and, and the bad examples. Like, um, the really bad examples like we learn in, in transportation, really bad examples of, uh, implementation in BRT, until they built the BRT in Santa Cruz, it was, uh, the one in Chile. Uh, you know, Transantiago when they started it was, like, night to, to morning. It was a different system. People didn’t have access to information. So, that’s, that’s what, what from we are, uh, uh, saying, right? The importance of information to the users. In, in Bolivia, uh, they try to build this BRT in Santa Cruz but they didn’t follow any standards. They tried to make a, a, a, an own

BRT, Bolivian BRT, but it didn’t work. So, standards are not, are not, uh, just, uh, uh, an accessory. Standards are there because if you follow them, it will work. Yeah. Really well said. Uh, I like that a lot.

All right. Just to wrap up here, wanna hit you with some rapid questions, uh, if you could. Just, uh, you know, give me what comes to your mind first. What is the best advice for somebody who is entering the transportation or, you know, specifically public transportation field? Uh,

I’ll say you need to learn what motivates people to move, what makes them go somewhere. Is it work? Is it study? Is it, uh, I don’t know, uh, m- going to see your girlfriend or whatever, right? So, once you understand what makes people move, what times, what, what, uh, modes of transportation they use, okay, then you learn to optimize that. So, once you, you optimize, then you use technology, then you are able to make more, uh, better use of resources. So, you observe. You have to first learn how, how people are moving, what makes them move. What is one thing that every rider should know about what goes into making a transit schedule? What would you say? If they’re complaining to you about, “Oh, this bus is always late. This train never arrives on time, never leaves on time,” you know, they might see that part of it, but what are you thinking when you get something like that, when you get a complaint?

Many times is sudden changes in, in traffic patterns. Many times is, is the city, uh, building the, the road. You know,

Texas is known for always being, uh, building roads. There’s no, there’s no single, uh, highway or road that you don’t see construction. So you’re always delayed because of construction. Uh, but many times it’s also bad scheduling, right? Uh, you, you don’t analyze the data so you give them too few time to your, to your bus, and then, of course, it’s never going to be reliable. Um, so it’s always important to, to analyze the data. So for users who, who complain about this, it’s, uh, important to, uh, voice your concern.

Uh, agencies are supposed to listen to you and supposed to give you a, a, a determined answer, when is it going to be, uh, fixed? So that’s what we do in here in Houston. We, we, we always strive to give you the best possible quality of service, and we always listen to our users, and we always, uh, try to give the best quality in the streets. And finally, how can our audience connect with you? Uh, maybe it’s via LinkedIn. How could they check out your app? Oh, man. I’m, I’m a social media, um, uh, crazy guy.

I’m, uh, I’m in TikTok, I’m in LinkedIn, I’m in, uh, uh, Instagram. I’m in X. Uh, I’m in Facebook. So people can, can find me, uh, with, uh, uh, my name, Jorge

Espinoza Landivar. Uh, I always welcome, uh, uh, contacts. I, I love to talk about transit. I love to meet new people. Uh, I, I really enjoy, uh, social media. It gives you access to customers. It gives you access to users. And, and of course, uh, it gives you the experience, right? Uh, like, you learn different, different perspectives, different points of view. Excellent. Yeah, in, in fact, I think the way that you and I met was via social media, if I remember correctly. Yeah. It was Facebook. Exactly. Because I saw the Cruzero page on

Facebook, so. I remember, yeah. Yeah, he is on, he is on Facebook, and sounds like Twitter, and X, everywhere else. Every single other one. Yeah, so connect with Jorge. Jorge, this has been an excellent conversation.

Really appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts with us today. And to our listeners, uh, thank you so much for tuning in each week. We’ll have a new episode out for you next Monday.