Exploring the Human Side of Transit Data with CUTR’s Dr Victoria Perk, Transit Research Program Director

Stop Requested. Welcome to Stop Requested, the podcast where we discuss everything transit. I’m your co-host, Levi McCollum, Director of Operations at ETA Transit. And I’m your co-host, Christian Londono,

Senior Customer Success Manager at ETA Transit. Welcome back to Stop Requested. Christian, how are you today?

Hey, Levi. Doing fantastic. How about yourself? I’m doing very well, and I’m very excited to be speaking with Dr. Victoria Perk today on today’s episode. Uh, she is the Transit Research Program Director at the Center for Urban Transportation

Research in Tampa at the University of South Florida. Vicky, how are you? I’m doing very well, Levi. Um, it’s great to be here. Thanks to, uh, you and Christian for inviting me on and, uh, hello to all your listeners. Absolutely. It’s a pleasure having you on the podcast. You know, you and I have known each other for probably a decade now, and I, I think the, the first time we ran into each other was at, uh, one of the NTD trainings that, uh, you know, CUTR is a part of, uh, giving out to the state of Florida and its transit agencies. And ever since then, you know, trying to follow what CUTR does, your work that you do, and I, I think this is going to be very insightful for our listeners, especially, uh, since some of the research doesn’t always make it down to practice.

I, I hope we can- Mm-hmm. … bridge some of that gap today. Wonderful. So, can you tell us how you got into, uh, transit research? What was your journey to get there? Well, you know, I know there’s a lot of people who, you know, appreciate, uh, tr- uh, public transit and transportation in general, you know, from the time they’re little kids and that’s how they get into this field, but for me it was, uh, completely accidental. And I think, you know, you will find some people in our industry that, that sort of found themselves accidentally here. Um, I was, uh, a master’s student in economics here at USF and I was simply looking to make some money, and this, uh, place called CUTR, uh, was hiring grad students at an attractive wage and, uh,

I, that was honestly my main motivation at the time. Uh, little did I know that it was gonna introduce me to a whole world and whole industry that I didn’t even really realize existed and I never really realized how important it is and I completely fell in love with it. Um, you know, I had always been… You know, I was in economics, uh, my, uh, all of my degrees are economics, so my interest in economics is on the human side, um, you know, because economics is a social science. It’s about how people behave, so that is always… I’m, I’m always interested in how people make choices, how people make decisions, and I love data and statistics.

So, those were the things that, um, I like and I’ve been very grateful to be able to apply those things, you know, in, in transit research and at CUTR.

So, what was the first project that you got involved in, uh, perhaps as a master’s student when you, you first started at CUTR that really got its hooks in you? Do you remember what that was? Oh, 100%. It’s a project I’m still working on today. Um, it’s the, uh, i- um,

NTD work that we do for FDOT. Um, FDOT contracts with us on an annual basis and has been, you know, since, like, 1990, um, to sort of be the ones who collect and maintain what was then called Section 15 data, and of course today is called a Na- you know, NTD, National Transit

Database. Um, you know, collect all that data for the reporters around the state and maintain a database and, uh, it’s used for performance measures. You know, I was in charge of, you know, collecting that data and formatting it and checking it, um, and to this day, you know, now I’m the, the PI of that project and I use grad student

. I always have a grad student to help me, um, and that’s been such a rewarding experience too, to, um, introduce, uh, the industry and research to other students and then see them get going on their careers. Um, so yeah, the same one after all these years. I think it’s CUTR’s longest-running, uh, recurring project.

You know, and probably one of the most important too because it has such profound impact on the industry. You wanna make sure that you’re submitting the correct data to the National Transit Database so you get the maximum- Yes.

… amount of funding back. Uh, so that, that’s really cool to hear and i- now that you’re the, uh, the PI for that project, I mean, wow, that’s, uh, it’s really coming full circle there. Yes. Yes, absolutely.

Very glad to continue that relationship and, and I know how important it is to support FDOT, um, you know, ’cause all those data are used for performance measures. They’re used for funding allocation, um, and that’s why we do the training. That’s why FDOT sponsors additional training besides what the FTA provides because they know how important it is and they wanna give tailored training to the Florida agencies.

Is, is that something that, uh, that CUTR does nationally or is it only in the state of Florida? Because I know you do some work nationally, but I don’t know where those boundaries are. Sure. Well, the, this particular project with, uh, the NTD, uh, work that we do with FDOT is, uh, specific to the state. So, um, they do the, we do two trainings a year for agencies in our state or anyone who’s affiliated with a public agency. You know, if you had people from

MPOs or DOT or even if you’re a consultant that is hired by a public transit agency, you can come. Um, and because they are sponsoring it, you know, they want it to be for the people of, of the state. There is training available nationally from FTA. It just does not go into quite the amount of detail and it’s not tailored specifically to, you know, the Florida sort of experience and, and the typical Florida or, you know, the way agencies are typically organized in Florida…. so it’s very valuable.

So, Vicky, working with data is, is definitely, uh, interesting and, you know, as you were explaining, the funding formula depends on some of these numbers agencies are reporting to the NTD, so even more important that agencies are participating on these trainings, uh, CUTR is providing and taking full advantage because there’s a lot of knowledge, eh, that is related to the NTD, and those folks and the agencies that have that role and function ha- they have such a big responsibility to be up to speed on all the different changes an- and the reporting. So, eh, you know, beyond, uh, helping with reporting and NTD training, uh, CUTR does a, a lot of other things as well, and since our listeners, they might not know about CUTR, and this might be the first time that they hear about it, some might know about CUTR but just not fully understand, uh, the scope, uh, of the organization. Could you give our listeners a brief overview of CUTR an- and its mission? Sure, absolutely.

Um, so CUTR, um, was created by the Florida legislature, um, back in 1988, uh, with just a handful of folks, um, here at USF, and its purpose was to be a resource for the state, and we still do adhere to that purpose, but, of course, our mission has expanded over the years.

Um, specifically, you know, uh, what we try to do is we want to help implement… You know, we wanna solve problems, right? So not just research, but, you know, technical assistance, training, the whole thing. Um, we wanna implement solutions, help to solve problems, but we also, you know, have an, uh, kind of an educational bent where we wanna develop future leaders in the transportation industry. Um, and, you know, we do that through, you know, some of us, uh, teach, uh, courses here at USF too. We’re not teaching… Uh, the CUTR faculty aren’t teaching faculty. We are research faculty, but some of us still do teach classes. Um, and we do that by hiring, uh, students, uh, to help us work on our, uh, projects. That’s a win-win, um, working with, uh, wonderful students, so we wanna do both of those things. And we have, um, boy, like seven… I, uh, I might get this number wrong. I should have maybe looked it up, but we have several programs-

… we have several program areas, so I know this is a s- a s- this particular podcast is specific to, uh, transit, but CUTR is much more than just public transit, right? It’s, it touches a lot of, uh, areas of, of transportation, right? Highway safety, uh, motorcycle safety, um, you know, uh, all kinds of different things. Um, so, you know, the transit is just one side of that, and we have a couple of programs here that do focus on transit and then other programs that do a, a host of other types of research and, and training and technical assistance.

Thank you for, for providing that, uh, response, and, and, and the thing is when we are in the transit industry, and some of us professionals in the transit industry, sometimes we just look at transit- Right. … and we don’t look at transportation and all the different aspects of transportation and urban development and then how do you combine all these different ways, uh, you know, to implement mobility I- in a given community- Right. … and having ha- that holistic approach. And also teaching, right? I- it just r- reminds me. I took… Early in my, uh, career,

I took a, um, transit planning course at the University of Milwaukee, and there was so much that I lea- I learned that, you know, you’re not gonna learn at the job, like, right? Like going to work and somebody might tell you, you know, “This is where we have the files, and this is the software that we use.” But if you don’t have those basics that you learn at a school th- you know, by professors as, as yourself that are, you know, professionals in the industry, that understand all the theory behind, you know, the way that we do things, uh, y- you’re not gonna learn that. I- it has… So important for professionals to, to have. Uh, so I, I wanted to ask you about that piece. So how does… And I guess you answered some of this, but I wanna just formally ask you, how does CUTR bridge that gap between academic research and then practical transit applications? Um, that’s a great question. Um, you know, there are s- uh, you know, there are other transportation research centers around the country, and there’s all kinds of g- you know, great places around the country at different universities that do the similar kind of work that we do. Um, but what I think makes us a little bit different is that we do have many practitioners here. Um, it’s not all professors. It’s not all academics. It’s practitioners. We have a very multidisciplinary team of people with all kinds of different experience, and many of our, uh, research faculty have spent years, decades even, working at public trans- transit agencies, not just in Florida, but around the country. Um, and so they’re bringing those decades of experience of actually being, you know, whether it was, um, you know, planners, or operations folks, or safety folks, or even general managers, um, you know, all of that experience, and then to do research on top of that. Um, so I think that’s kind of what makes us, uh, a little s- you know, unique in that way. I mean, for me, personally, I have never worked at a transit agency, right? However, um, from what I learned from other people who worked here who have, and all the projects that we’ve done at various transit agencies, I almost feel

… almost feel like I can, um, you know, have a little bit of that credibility because of all the work we’ve done and everything I’ve learned. You know, I learned how to do a ride check from a CUTR faculty member who had worked- … for a transit agency. So, um, I, I think it’s that, uh, multidisciplinary nature, and it’s not always focusing on just grant-funded research, but on technology transfer and training and technical assistance, um, to agencies. I think that, that really helps kind of round out CUTR’s portfolio. You know, I have a, a follow-up question on, on what you just said there, because what I was thinking is, for those students, uh, that are being exposed, uh, to, you know, CUTR and, uh, professors that have the practical experience, that have worked in transit agencies, but also they’re working on research that is, that is… that has a purpose. Um, do you see some of these students or, or have you seen, uh, you know, uh, some of these students making the decision, “You know what? I, I like, uh, transportation, a, and then I,I wanna be working in transportation industry.”?

H- have you had some of that, uh, at, at your school? Oh, 100%. 100%. And I’m telling you, that’s like, for me, that’s one of the most re- rewarding things, um, about my career, has been working with some fantastic students who, many of whom I am still in touch with many, many years later and, and have professional relationships with even many years later, um,

I, I’m a little- because I guess I’m a little bit different. You know, some of the other, uh, folks might be teaching, you know, very specific, you know, transportation classes in the College of Engineering, um, but I’m teaching Econ classes over at, you know, outside the College of Engineering, um, because that’s my area, right? So I’ve been teaching- Right. … Economics classes here at USF. It’s kinda scary, but since like, for over 25 years. Um, and those kids aren’t interested in they, they, they’re coming in not having any preconceived notion about transportation or transit at all. However, because economics, you know, the nature of what economics is, you can bring in so many examples from, you know, transportation generally or transit specifically, um, and many times I’ve used, uh, examples of projects we’re working on to help illustrate certain theories. Um, in that way, I have gotten students, kind of given them the bug a little bit, I guess you could say. Mm-hmm. And I’ve had students either wanna come over and work at CUTR or, you know, I’m actually meeting with a student tomorrow who’s not somebody that, um, I, I, I’m hiring here at CUTR, but who just wants to talk about, you know, being in the industry and what it’s like to work in transit. Um, that’s been, that’s been really cool. I mean, I have a little secret where and

I, I usually pick the students that work for me out of my classes. And they don’t realize it, but they’ve been on a semester-long interview with me-

… because, you know, you can, you can see, you know, how… what is the work ethic of this person? Do they show up? Um, do they work hard? You know, or do they communicate well? Um, and, you know, I’ve, I’ve found many great students that way, and I do teach undergraduate classes, so CUTR does sometimes hire undergraduate students, and particularly for a project like an- the- our NTD support with FDOT, having somebody who’s an undergrad and then wants to stay for a master’s helps me not have to teach a new student how to do NTD, how to… every year. So

I do like having that long, you know, have a student around for a few years, um, because as you mentioned, NTD, it can be confusing. Um, there’s a lot going on there. You have to know what you’re doing, um, to work with that data, um, and so I like to have those, those students around, but I… Yes,

I’ve had many students. There, there’s a few that have gone on to do other things and went to, you know, “Oh, I’m gonna go to law school now.” Or, uh, “Oh, I’m gonna go work, you know, for… as an analyst, you know, for some other firm.” But I definitely have had, um, many students end up, if not in transit specifically, in the transportation field. Yeah. That, that, that’s awesome. And, and I thank you on behalf of the industry

– … uh, for doing so, because I- I’ve seen, um, transit agencies, uh, around the country sometimes just struggling to finding, you know, um, transit professionals for different roles. It could be transit planning- Mm-hmm. … it could be operations, because you have to have all this knowledge. Like, you have to understand transportation, you have to understand the different aspects and, and there’s stuff that you can learn as you go on the job, but for different roles, you have to have… you know, you have to know. Yes. And, and a lot of times agencies are kind of like poaching from one another, you know. Like, “I used to be a transit planner at this agency, and then now

I’m a planner at this agency.” And then they take from the other agency that already has the person with the know-how. So, so having, you know, uh, somebody or, or, or an organization like yours breeding transit professionals, uh, and transportation professionals is, is just, uh, amazing and, and much needed. And, you know, w- wanna connect, um, this section of our conversation, you mentioned uh, in the NTD. So

I, I just want to, um, bring that back again. If you could tell us what’s your role with NTD training and support? What kind of activities you guys have, uh, during the year where you provide this type of training and information for transit agencies?

Sure, sure. So, you know, as I mentioned before, this, um… we do have a, a contract with FDOT that has been annually recurring for-… decades now

, um, and it has three main components. Our one component is of course to collect and maintain a database from the urban reporters in the state. We actually have a separate project that, that, uh, deals with the rural data, so we do that as well. Um, and then we have the training component, um, and then we have just general NTD support, whether for agencies or for F- you know, to FDoT. Um, so, you n- you can j- a- as you know, you can’t just come in and sit down and be like, “Okay, I’m gonna do NTD data today, and I’m gonna understand everything about it.” Right? It’s, it’s fairly complex. Um, you know, there’s the service data side, there’s the financial data side, and, uh, a few other things thrown in there too, safety and security. Um, it does require a, a lot of information to know what you’re doing. Um, so again, that’s why FDoT does like to sponsor those, uh, two trainings a year, um, which are always very well attended. And we move them around the state to make it easy for, uh, people to attend so they don’t have to travel very far. Um, and again, the training is, is, uh, it adds… It’s, it, it’s kind of a value added above what FTA provides. I mean, FTA’s trainings are fine, um, they have webinars, they are returning to some in-person training. Um, I have attended their trainings before. There’s nothing wrong with that, but the, um, they tend to be… They tend to just keep it a little bit higher level, and they focus on using, like, the NTD Online Reporting System and how to fill out… you know, work with the forms and so forth.

Whereas our training here that we provide in Florida also focuses on how do you… what is this data and how do you col- collect it? What’s the best way to collect it and, and, you know, uh, compile it and store it and, and use it? Um, as well as how, you know, you fill out the NTD forms. And of course, the instructor can tailor the training to the Florida agencies and those, uh, who are in attendance. Whereas, you know, if you do a more general national training, they’re just gonna do the same thing. They’re gonna say the same thing, uh, for everybody, no matter who is there. Um, so that’s… I, I think that’s what’s really nice about that training. Um, and we have a fantastic instructor, uh, Bryan McCollum, who’s, uh, been doing this forever, and, uh, he also, uh, works with FTA, so he really knows his stuff and he’s such a great resource to me as well as to, you know, everybody when he provides that training. But we also… You know, I’ve al- we’ve asked, answering questions. Somebody…

you know, FDoT will ask me a question, agencies will ask questions. Um, you know, “What does this mean?” Or, “Does the NTD have this? Does the NTD have that?” You know, “Can you pull this data? Can you do this or that?” Or, you know, “What does this definition mean?” Or, “Why d- why is the FTA want the data collected like this?” Um, so I’m able to, you know, help answer those kinds of questions. And of course, reporting agencies have their analyst, their NTD analyst that is assigned to them, um, by a… you know, FTA and, and those folks are fantastic and they answer all your questions as well, but, uh, we serve kind of as that additional resource, um, not just to central office, but to the district offices, and like I said, the agencies as well. Um, and if I don’t know the answer, I will call up

Bryan and he will and he will know the answer. And a shout-out to Bryan McCollum, uh, similar last name. Yes. Yes, yes. Sounds very similar to mine, but, uh, it does have the same pronunciation.

That’s true. So, uh, you know, we, we, we always joke every time I see him, he’s like, “We gotta get more McCollums in the transit industry.” Yes. So I, I feel like I’m doing my part there. Uh, so you’re, you’re also a viewer for the, uh, NTD data that the, the agency would submit to, if I remember correctly. Is that still going on? Oh, yes, yes.

So, so that’s… that was a wonderful thing that we were able to start doing once, uh, the NTD platform transitioned online, because I’m sure the… you know, the last thing that busy transit planners need is somebody like me pestering them to send data

, right? Um, so what’s nice about that viewer access, you know, having me as a, as, uh, in the role of viewer for all our agencies is that I can just go in, I can’t ruin anything, right? I can’t change anything, but I can go in and pull the data that we need quickly and be very responsive to FDoT without having to take the time to contact everybody individually. I mean, when I first started doing this, you know, back in the day, in the early 90s, you had to call people up. And this is even before email, my goodness

, but you had to call people up and they would have to send you a little packet, and sometimes the forms had like hand… you know, were handwritten in. I mean, it goes way back. So, it’s, it’s way more efficient for me to be able to go in there and, uh, pull what we need. I know what to look for, you know, I know what forms… you know, exactly what version of forms I need to look for. Um, occasionally, however… so if there are any, um, of our a- uh, Florida agencies listening, I would just like to remind you, please don’t kick me out of that viewer role. Every now and then that happens and then we have to call them up and ask to be re- uh, put back on there. But I’m also a reporter now too. So I did… um, for the

FDoT district one, um, they have a van pool service, Commute Connector, uh, contracting with Enterprise and- uh, you know, providing service throughout, uh, the counties in the district. And, uh-… they use us to report.

So, I actually, uh, got to learn something new going from being a user and a viewer of the data to a reporter. And that’s been, that’s been great. That’s been a, a great way to round out, I think, my NTD expertise.

You’re getting the full experience now. Yes. Reporter, viewer, all of it. Uh, so, you know, clearly you spend a, a lot of time with the NTD data, with the trainings, uh, y- you know, of course, with the, the oversight of the submission, uh, to s- some degree or, you know, at least that viewing in responsibility.

Uh, w- what else excites you about the, uh, the, the transit industry or specifically transit research right now? What gets you up in the morning?

Um, yes. So, yeah, I know it sounds like so far that, that NTD is, is all I, I do, but I do, uh, get myself involved in some other types of projects as well. Um, some of my most recent research has been on economic impacts and benefits of public transportation. Uh, so that is, you know, interestingly

I don’t always get to directly apply my economics background, uh, to my work. I think I am always indirectly applying it. But, um, you know, e- every now and then I have a project where I can very directly use, uh, my skills as an economist, uh, to complete work. And I just think it’s so important not just, uh, economic impact in terms of dollars, but to look at the other economic benefits of public transportation, um, especially in some of our s- more smaller urban and smaller communities in Florida. Um, it’s not… You know, those benefits aren’t always easily quantifiable, but I think they are, they are certainly there and they’re so important to be discussed and brought to light and shared so people understand, you know, the value of these services to people i- in our communities.

And just kind of along that same line, what, what are you seeing as far as the challenges for researchers, uh, specifically transit researchers today? Well, I think, you know, a- advancing technology is, is just the, the rapid, rapid advancement of technology is, um, is, is a challenge and an opportunity, right? Things are moving very quickly. Um, we may be in the middle of some interesting shifts as far as, you know, automation and AI. And we see in Florida, you know, many of our fixed route transit systems are starting to implement microtransit models, uh, some as a way to expand service, some to replace fixed route service. And that just kind of… Those models are just kind of new, right? There’s so much to learn about those things. Um, we’re actually… A couple of my colleagues here at CUTR, we’re working on an internal project right now, working on a white paper, uh, to identify some, uh, key and important, um… Or, or kind of different, uh, identifying priorities, uh, for research in microtransit.

Uh, could you expand on that a little bit more? I mean, I know it’s your, your colleagues and not necessarily a part of your research, but, uh, you know, w- what is it that they would, that they’re looking into regarding microtransit?

Well, we’re taking a look at, and we kind of have just started this, but we’re, you know, we’re looking at a little bit of… You know, there’s been some literature and, and things out there, but we actually spoke with a panel of folks, uh, in the state at agencies who are implementing some of this type of service or are thinking about implementing these services. And, at least to me, I mean, obviously we talked about all kinds of different things, but one of the things that stood out to me was, how do you measure the success of, of these services? What are the metrics that we should be using? Like, we all know the typical metrics that people might look at when we measure, you know, service standards or whatever for fixed route services.

Um, you know, how do you… Uh, what are the metrics we should be focusing on to, uh, measure or evaluate microtransit? Um, and, and then, then how do we communicate those successes to, to boards and to stakeholders?

So, that was just one thing that, that stood out to me. Like I said, we haven’t really gotten very far on all of this yet. But to me, when I heard that, that s- kind of a little light bulb went off in my head and I’m like, “That’s a research project that I would like to do,” is to, you know, start looking at, at that, those types of things. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Uh, so if I understand you correctly, it, it’s n- not necessarily the case that we would want to look at ridership or, uh, passengers per hour or even farebox- Right. … recovery, right, for a, a microtransit service. It just might have a completely different set of KPI that it’s kind of operating on. Yes. Yes. Okay. Yes. It, it- Yeah. Are, are, are those measures the same or are there gonna be some different things we need to look at when, you know, when we look at those kinds of services? Yeah, absolutely. Right. And I imagine that depends on what you want the, the goal of the microtransit service to be. Like you said, it could be to expand some service area. It could be to replace a rather unproductive fixed route. Uh, so you, you- Right. … need to find the right KPI so you could see if you’re doing, uh, you know, better or worse. And if you’re not tracking it, then y- you just don’t know. Exactly.

Uh, and do you see the landscape for transit research kind of continuing down that path? You know, looking at some of these ideas about, you know, newer services, um, y- you know, perhaps it’s like micro-mobility or the integration of some of the services for micro transit to fixed route? Uh, you know, any, any thoughts there about, uh, the direction that the transit research community is headed?

Um, you know, I mean, just by definition when we think about research or we think about innovation is always, you know, come what is next. So, I think, you know, absolutely flushing out, um, these new developments and the, you know, all these things, you know, automation, micro-transit, new ways of service delivery, um, AI, you know, who knows? Um, that, that’s just the one thing too, like, we just have no idea what’s gonna be, like, the next thing that’s gonna come along and shake things up. We can’t even imagine what that’s, you know, gonna be. Um, and that is something that I talk about in my macroeconomics class, when I teach a macro class. But, um, a- another reminds me of, so I, I have a son who’s in, in college, and when we went to the, um, orientation last year for his freshman year, and they had a thing where they talked to just the parents, you know, while the students go off and do whatever. Um, the guy said, ’cause you know, par- a lot of parent, you know, everybody, y- college is expensive, you know?

What are, you know, what kind of job are you gonna get with your college degree, like, that’s something that everybody talks about, right? Um, I always try to remind people that college is not job training, but that’s another conversation for another day. But the, the speaker, I thought answered the question very well, and he was like, “You know, our job is just to prepare students to have an education to be ready for whatever is out there.” Right? Because he said many of the jobs that your kids, so kids in college today, the, many of the jobs that they will ultimately end up working during their career don’t even exist today. And I thought that was a really good way of looking at things. I mean, look at the, um, medium by or- by which we are discussing, you know, having this conversation today that didn’t exist a couple, you know, however many years ago. Um, when I went to college and got my master’s degree before Google , you know? Like, um, that, that was true for me too.

There’s all kinds of jobs today that are related to, you know, the way our current, you know, current technologies today that didn’t exist back then. So, I just think that, like, we have to be open to just forging down that path of innovation and seeing where it takes us.

I don’t know if I got off-track there a little bit, but… No, that, that, that makes a lot of sense. And, and, um, you know, particularly, uh, reporting these new modes as, as the way that we’re delivering transit is changing, uh, in the, some, you know, different communities. That’s where that recurrent entity training and the updates is so important, uh, because some agencies- Right. … don’t know, like even, even the FTA and, and through the entity analysts, like sometimes they give you, you know, some guidance based on what, also what they’re hearing. But with these new modes, it’s like, okay, well you have to do the demand response, but then you have to put it this way and then you have to do it that way, because, you know, the, the operating model is not entirely, you know, the way the par- transit works and all those innovations, uh, create a, a new set of challenges. Of course, there’s also a whole set of benefits so on. So, in why we’re using those things for first/last mile and then just being- Right. … able to transition people from their cars into, uh, using public transit. Uh, but yeah, that, that’s ever-changing. That’s, there’s always innovation- Well- … and, and things being put in place. Well, and, and you bringing up, you know, how we report the, uh, those services in

NTD is actually a very timely question and something that, uh, you know, we’re trying to figure out. Because when we report statewide ridership numbers to the s- you know, to FDOT, um, we typically would only include fixed-route modes. You know, we would pull the, the bus and rail modes, uh, from NTD and we would ignore… Well, and vanpool, that was something that

FDOT wanted to include many years ago, and so we do include vanpool, but, um, we don’t include demand response. And, you know, I’ve been having a discussion with, you know, with Chris Wigglesworth at FDOT and, you know, how… Are we accurately representing statewide ridership if we are not including those data? And so we’re working to include those data, you know, in our statewide ridership numbers, because they really are transit riders, you know?

Yeah, they are. They are. Yeah. And those are transportation that, that is being provided by the transit agency. It, it makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Uh, I just want to, you know, change our conversation, um, a, a, and then ask you about advice, right? Like, you, you have this experience in the transit industry and, and you’ve seen a lot of the innovation taking place, uh, you know, throughout the years. So, for those young transit professionals, those folks that are just starting in our industry, uh, what advice could you give them, um, you know, related to transportation research? Well, I think it’s, it’s important, um, always to be curious and to have an open mind. Um, and it’s important to network. You know, learn from your colleagues as much as you can and share with your colleagues. And I know for me, when I was starting out, um, and I didn’t really know anything and I was just sort of realizing that, hey, this is, this transit stuff is really cool and I think this is where I want to be, um, you know, there were a lot of, um-… colleagues that were a little bit older than me that were just really fantastic, uh, mentors, um, and just, you know, I appreciated so much that they were willing to, to help to teach me and to give me experience and to, you know, kind of give me things to run with. Um, and those relationships are so important and I’ve been very grateful to have many of those relationships that have lasted, you know, all, all these years. Um, and that’s, that’s been fantastic. Um, I think also if you’re gonna be a researcher, you have to be, um, you have… You have to learn to write well.

Mm-hmm. Write, write, write. Um, you have to be able to write well. Writing skills are so important. They’re important in many, many different professions, of course. But, um, you know, as a researcher, you’re gonna be writing a lot, a lot of different types of reports and articles, and, uh, you need to, to be really good at that and get lots of practice. That’s for sure. So communication is, is definitely one of those, uh, critical skills- Yes. … and, and of course, with that it comes all forms of communication as, you know, you mentioned written communication. A lot of times you are reading… I mean, you’re writing a report. Like there, there’s… You’re translating all that research into, you know, uh, inference of what the data’s telling us and, like all the different aspects of the research. What do we do with that, right? Like, y- you know, it, it’s so important that we have that ability of communicating those, um-

Yes. … different findings. Uh, so one advice that I would ask from you for those folks is, is how do you communicate that complex research finding to non-technical audiences? Like what are some tips or, you know, some things that, uh, you know, that are best practices per se that you would recommend for those folks? Uh, I think that’s so important and that is a skill that sometimes takes a long time to develop. Um, however, there are some things that, you know, someone just starting out can keep in mind. Like you, you have to… A- again, like who is your audience? And you need to sit down and whether you’re writing a, a, a report, you know, like a brief report or whether you’re preparing a presentation, you have to consider who the audience is. You’re not… You can’t just say,

“Well, this is my project on, you know, economic benefits and I’m gonna give the same presentation to every single person and every single group.” That’s not gonna work, right? You have to… If, if I’m doing a presentation to an academic audience or an academic conference, it’s gonna be different than if I’m doing it in an industry conference versus to a, um, people at a transit agency versus to a public meeting, um, or a, a county commission, right? It’s all different and you have to tailor it that way. Like for instance, if I’m using models and a lot of math, do you think that the non-technical people want to see that? No.

Yeah. They do not want to see it. Yeah. They don’t care. I mean, they know it’s there. You can say, “Well, we based it on this model and here it is.” But you’re not gonna spend most of your time talking about that or a big part of your report talking about that. They don’t care. They… You know, the non-technical audience may wanna know a little bit about that background, but they really are more interested in your findings and, and what those mean for them. An academic audience says, “No, no, no. I wanna get into the…” And an academic audience sometimes doesn’t even care about the findings. Yeah. They care about the method. Right? They care about the method. The process. And, you know, yes, we’re gonna dive into that nitty-gritty of your model or your data or, you know, did you include this, did you include that. Um, so that’s, that is really, really, um, important. And I always t-… I always tell people too like with presentations like,

“You should be able to take any topic, any report or whatever, and you tell me I have five minutes or you tell me I have an hour and I could give you an effective presentation, uh, a- anywhere within those two bookmark- you know, bookends.” Um, and that… I think that does take some time to develop, but that is something that I think is important for anybody doing research to know.

Mm-hmm. I think, uh, that’s a great piece of, uh, advice there. Thank you for sharing that with, with our audience. I wanna ask you this, uh, other question on, on this segment which is what do you wish you had known when you were starting your research career?

Uh… It… That’s a, that’s a tough one, right? Because you learn so much with experience. Um, I think… You know, one thing is, is I never realized I would be in this field for so long. Mm-hmm. Um, I initially thought maybe it would be transitory or something that I just did for a few years before I moved on and did something else with my degree. And, you know, this is a really fantastic field to be in.

Uh, public… You know, transportation generally and, and transit specifically, um, they’re so important, uh, to our economy, they’re important to communities, they’re important to people. Um, and I’m realizing as I get older that they… Think that’s maybe why I like the industry so much is because it’s about people and that was always kind of what I was interested in from the get-go. Um, interested in the, that human side of economics, um, and h- you know, the people’s motivations and, and decision-making and, and, and, you know, all those things.

But with research specifically, um, one thing that was helpful for me to learn is that perfect is the enemy of the good. Right? So, maybe you’ve heard that before. I tend to be one of those people that can just go down the rabbit hole and not stop un- until I think it’s perfect. And the problem is, of course, it’s never gonna be. And so, you have to know when to stop and maybe save it for another project. Um-I remember we were working on one of our, uh, projects on property values around BRT stations, and

I was, I was working with a, a colleague, actually another… I was working with a grad student, and, you know, we had our paper and we were so worried about it because, oh, we didn’t do this, or we didn’t do that, or we didn’t have this or that, and we were running out of time. And we had one of, uh, the professors over in economics take a look at it for us, and he was like,

“Just get it out there. Get it out there.” It’s okay if it’s not… I mean, obviously you want it to be done properly, you know, but it’s okay if you haven’t answered all of the questions yet or haven’t done everything that you wanna do. Um, get it out there, share it with people. Um, you know, you might have another opportunity to build upon that work, but then let other people see it and ha- and build on your work. Um, you know, let somebody else see what you started and maybe take it in another direction that you didn’t even think about, and that’s how that, you know, body of knowledge grows, um, on a topic. Um, I was always thinking, you know, you had to be perfect and, and have everything done the right way the, you know, the first time, you know, answer… Or answer the question definitively, um, the first time. No, it, it’s okay if you don’t, um, and you can continue working on that and, and other people can, can work on it too and, you know, that’s… I don’t know. That… I don’t know if, if that sounds like a, a good answer, but that is one of the things that, that I have learned, um, and I wish I had realized that when I was younger.

Y- yeah, I really love that answer and it resonates a lot with me because I’m also one of those people who just doesn’t wanna stop until I deem it to be perfect, whatever that is. And it’s just- Right. … something that it’s very hard to turn off in my brain, so resonates with me. I’m sure it will resonate with our audience, uh, as well. Uh, Vicky, I just wanna say thank you for coming on the podcast today. This has been really just a pleasant conversation. Uh, just before we go though, I have some takeaways that I, I wrote down and just wanna see what you think of these, and hopefully, uh, you know, you agree with them. If, if not, then, uh, feel free to add any details that I may have missed. But, uh, first takeaway that I have is if you’re with a transit agency and you see, uh,

Victoria Perk in the NTD, don’t remove her. That’s the, that’s the one takeaway. Yes. First takeaway. Uh, be curious and have an open mind. I think that’s great advice no matter what industry you’re going in, transportation or, or not. Uh, writing skills can propel your career, so focus on being a good wr- good writer. I know that, you know, with the ChatGPTs of the world, it’s… Uh, people s- te- tend to rely on those, but y- you still have to hone your craft, right? You need to be a good writer. Oh, absolutely. Oh, and yeah, the, the AI, the ChatGPT, my goodness, yeah. That’s, um… I think it will be very bad if people re- rely on too much of th- of that to do the writing. I mean, you can, you can use it to help you organize notes or to, you know, help with an outline or something like that. But you’re, you’re 100% right. Nothing is gonna substitute for, for, uh, having that… You know, honing that craft and, and being able to tailor your work to the proper audience.

Right, right. And actually, you, you touched on my, my next one that I wrote down, which was tailor your message to the audience. Know who your audience is, uh, who you’re speaking to because that matters what your presentation a- and the words that you use is…

You know, it, it’s all depending on the, the other, uh, the other side of the room, right? The people that are looking at you. And lastly, y- you know, we already touched on this, but your work will not be perfect. You should share it anyway.

That’s excellent advice, uh, for anybody that’s, that’s going into a professional setting. Sometimes you just have to put the ideas out there. Yes. Any others that you wanna add, Vicky?

No, I think those were, those were some good takeaways. Uh, you gave them, so I just summarized them. Yeah. Well, that’s what… Yes, I guess that’s what I meant. That was a great summary of those takeaways. You, you said it well. You said them well. Okay. Okay, excellent. Excellent. Well, if our listeners are interested in CUTR or in your research, Vicky, w- where can they go to learn more?

Well, of course we have, uh, a website, CUTR.USF.edu. Um, and, uh, we are on socials as well, so they can find us there. I, I myself personally am a little bit of a, um, probably not as involved in, in those extra types of, uh, social, you know, marketing or social media marketing as I should be, but CUTR is definitely out there, um… Excellent.

Well, uh, thank you again, Vicky, for spending about an hour with us today. This has been a really pleasant conversation. And thank you to our listeners for tuning in, as always. We’ll be back next week, uh, for another episode. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.